Superintendent Neil Levin. [This is]…a day when we honor Presidents Washington and Lincoln. Both men led the fight for freedom, and we too are here today to lead a fight. A fight to ensure that Holocaust victims and their heirs finally have their long overdue insurance claims paid. It is clear that several European insurance companies have failed to pay the legitimate claims made by Holocaust victims and their families. This is an issue, which like that of the dormant accounts in Swiss banks, has been ignored for well over 50 years. In the last two years, through the persistence of so many people, including Governor George Pataki, Senator Alfonse D’Amato, Edgar Bronfmann, Israel Singer and Elan Steinberg of the World Jewish Congress, the world has finally taken note of the fact that the most heinous crime in history, the Holocaust, was followed by history’s greatest robbery. I personally have been outspoken on the need for the Swiss banks to finally come clean and honor the trust that was placed in them so long ago by people who were victimized during the Holocaust. I remain committed to righting this wrong and will say again publicly that I expect the Swiss banks to do the just and honorable thing. Let me say that I expect nothing less from the European insurance companies. The European insurance community systematically failed to honor insurance contracts written on the lives of European Jews and their property. My expectations of the European insurance community is that they will submit voluntarily to the review of an independent international oversight body. This structure, which was put forth in recent days by Senator D’Amato and Governor Pataki, is an appropriate mechanism to expeditiously resolve these long overdue claims. If, however, companies do not wish to cooperate on a voluntary basis, I believe that we, at the state level, should do all that we can as the primary regulators of insurance, to ensure that we take all necessary actions to gain access to critical books and records. I have been working closely with Assembly Speaker Silver, Senator Guy Vellela, Chairman of the Senate Insurance Committee, who have pledged to me to introduce legislation to ensure that the insurance department has all the tools it needs to vigorously investigate these companies. I commend them for their continuing efforts and I thank Speaker Silver for helping to raise the visibility of this important issue. In looking at the attendance here today, I can’t help but wonder how different things might have been if 50 years ago, public officials nationwide expressed the same interest and commitment in obtaining justice for victims of the Holocaust that I see here today. As many of you know, New York State has been actively involved in the recovery of Holocaust assets since the spring of 1996 when Governor Pataki first contacted the president of the Swiss Federal Banking Commission, and the president of the Swiss National Bank. The governor expressed his concern about the fate of Holocaust victims’ assets deposited in Swiss banks. At that time, the governor also directed the state banking department to monitor the progress of Senator D’Amato’s hearings to determine whether the state could play a more active role. In October 1996, Senator D’Amato’s staff uncovered documents which for the first time revealed the extent of the connection between the Swiss banks here in New York and Holocaust victims’ assets. At that point, Governor Pataki ordered a full investigation into the fate of all assets deposited with Swiss banks here in New York in an attempt to ascertain to what extent they represented assets of individuals who perished in the Holocaust. That investigation continues today. The State’s continued commitment, is evidenced by regulatory action taken against Swiss Banc Corp this past December for its failure to fully cooperate with the banking department’s targeted examination. In addition, in August of 1997, Governor Pataki opened the New York State Holocaust Claims Processing Office, the first government office in the world dedicated to assisting Holocaust victims and their families in recovering their assets from Swiss banks. As the bank investigation moved forward, the issue of Holocaust victims’ insurance policies came to light with the filing of the class-action lawsuit against some of the largest insurance companies in Europe. Commissioner Deborah Senn of Washington State was also looking into this matter and subsequently, with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, we began to pursue an appropriate resolution to this matter. In response to the heightened awareness regarding insurance claims, Governor Pataki expanded the focus of the Holocaust Claims Processing Office to include claims against European insurance companies. In my present capacity as New York State’s Superintendent of Insurance, I have made the issue one of paramount importance. My staff and I are committed to ensuring that whatever can be done, will be done, so that finally, these victims can receive the justice that has eluded them for so long. Determining the fate of the thousands of insurance policies issued to individuals who were murdered over 50 years ago is indeed a daunting task. We find ourselves confronted with many unique issues. The companies that issued the policies were not confined to one specific country, but rather span most of what eventually became Occupied Europe. Many different types of policies are involved. These include life insurance, property and casualty insurance, and what once were known as dowry policies. These were annuity-type policies taken out by a parent upon the birth of a child to ensure that when the child married or reached a certain age, they would be provided for. Sadly, many of the beneficiaries of these policies never survived and their heirs never received the policy proceeds. In the past, companies have acknowledged the existence of policies, but often raised a variety of legalistic reasons for refusing to honor their obligations. Many of these refusals appear to based on skewed or unreasonable readings of the policies, the only goal of which was to ensure that obligations were not met and that claims were not paid. In other situations, the companies appear to have refused simply because they were faced with a claimant who was powerless to fight back. The investigation by my staff has uncovered many disturbing examples of insensitive and obstructive conduct on the part of some of the companies and the treatment of claimants, one of which I would like to share with you. This example is particularly disturbing because it happened in 1942, three years before the War even ended, and it provided a grim preview of how some companies would treat their customers. The particular company involved issued policies before the War throughout Europe, including to Jews living in Germany. The victims had claims under their policies, and after successfully fleeing Berlin, sought to enforce the terms of their policies from the United States. The company, however, declined to honor its obligations and refused to pay. When the policyholders brought an action in a New York court, the company in question put forth what can only be described as a reprehensible response: "…since the policy was issued in Germany, only a German court had jurisdiction over the issue, and thus the policyholders, Jews who had just fled Germany, must file suit in a Berlin court." This is also telling because it lends credence to claims we have heard about one particularly disturbing tactic an insurance company used to take advantage of desperate people. We have heard that some companies actively pursued the business of desperate individuals by touting the safety of insurance policies as a means of preserving wealth. Large cash payments would be made up front by individuals who relied on the representation of the companies that the assets were safe. When an obligation arose to pay on a policy or return the cash value, the companies would refuse to pay the claim and argue that only a court in the jurisdiction where the policy was issued was competent to hear the dispute. Invariably, the court of competent jurisdiction was under German domination during the War or under Communist rule after the War, neither of which was a jurisdiction inclined to provide justice to Holocaust victims or their heirs. These are but a few examples of the conduct engaged in by some insurance companies which resulted in enormous windfalls for the companies. A disturbing practice which took more than 50 yeas to bring to light. Our investigation has also uncovered that the senior management of several German, Austrian and Swiss insurance companies in 1941 included some of the most notorious War criminals: people who played key roles in the Nazis’ rise to power and the administration of the government, some of who were amongst Hitler’s closest confidants. A comprehensive list of names is available in a handout at the back of the room. (Attachment A). I would like to highlight, however, two examples of this connection. These documents which I have blown up to poster size relate to two companies: Allianz, a German company, and Viennese Municipal Insurance Company, an Austrian insurer. We have obtained copies of a list of the senior management of these companies from 1941. They show for Allianz four notorious figures, three of whom were convicted of War crimes: Herman Schmitz, Alfried Krupp von Bohlan und Halbach, Friedrich Flick and Eduard Hilgard. For Viennese Municipal, the list shows several high-ranking stormtroopers and Ernst Kaltenbrunner, an Austrian lawyer who went on to become one of the most feared men in Nazi Germany. We show you these exhibits to show you the incestuous relationship that often exhibited between the insurance industry and the Nazi government. The Jewish policyholders in particular never had a chance. One positive aspect surrounding our investigation into the fate of these policies is that more documentation appears to exist on the part of the companies and claimants. Unlike a Swiss bank account, there was nothing inherently secretive about having an insurance policy. Thus, more documentation was generated and claimants in general possessed more information than those people attempting to locate assets in Swiss banks. It appears that the documentation possessed by the companies was also more substantial on the insurance side than on the banking side. Sadly, time is not a luxury that Holocaust victims have. That’s why it is essential that we move quickly to resolve this issue. Toward that end, we have had several meetings with the leaders of several of the largest European insurers, including Allianz, Generali, AXA and Zurich insurance. I have also met with some of the European insurance regulators in order to impress upon them the need to work together toward a swift resolution of these issues and to ensure that once and for all, all claims of Holocaust victims and their heirs are appropriately and justly handled. Last week, Senator D’Amato and Governor Pataki proposed a mechanism that we believe is the best way to bring justice to these policyholders. The idea has been embraced by the World Jewish Congress. In addition as was announced last Thursday, Generali Insurance has come forward and acknowledged its support in principle. We look forward to the rest of the European insurance community stepping forward. We propose a two-prong approach: the first part involves the creation of a committee, which will undertake a thorough review of the books and records of insurers who voluntarily submit to such a committee. The committee would use independent auditors, lawyers, historians and other experts. The governing board’s members would be comprised of an international body, including representatives from the U.S. regulatory community, the World Jewish Congress and the community of Holocaust survivors, as well as the European insurance community, both corporate and regulatory. The second part involves state insurance regulators utilizing all available regulatory and enforcement authority to conduct independent reviews of those companies unwilling to submit to the oversight of the newly created international oversight body. We will seek additional statutory authority, if necessary, at both the state and federal level. Governor Pataki and I remain committed to ensuring an appropriate resolution to all claims by Holocaust victims and their heirs. We cannot undo the horrors that took place 50 years ago, but we can ensure that the victims are not victimized again. I encourage the representatives here today to work with us to achieve the justice for these people that has more than half a century overdue. We have a long and distinguished list of speakers today, but before we begin I’d like to invite Commissioner Senn to say a few words, and to commend her for her efforts to pursue justice over the last few months. Commissioner Senn.

Commissioner Deborah Senn. Thank you Superintendent Levin. We are very pleased here, on behalf of the NAIC Holocaust Insurance Issues Working Group, we are very pleased to be here in New York City, your beautiful city, your wonderful state, and of course also the home of so many survivors that are impacted by this issue, and we’re very grateful at the turnout of survivors today. I would just like to take a couple of minutes to catch up on the events of the last several days, I need to catch the committee up, and those of you here as well. As you know, this is about the sixth in a number of hearings that the NAIC working group has held around the country. Our first was in Washington, D.C., we’ve been to Miami Beach, we’ve been to Chicago, Los Angeles, Commissioner Quackenbush held a hearing in San Francisco, we’ve been to Illinois and of course we are here in New York. We stand ready to hold a hearing any place we’re requested to by commissioners in that state, however, we think that this is the last hearing. This is the last scheduled hearing. Last Thursday, I and Commissioner Quackenbush appeared before Chairman Leach’s committee, the House Banking Committee, which is of course addressing this issue, as it has in the past addressed the banking issue, and we testified about the work that the committee was doing then, along with a number of survivors. At that time, as the committee probably recalls, we had asked a number of the companies whether they would voluntarily open their books and records to our examiners, and if the committee recalls, we put the question to several of the companies at our Seattle hearing, we put the question to Allianz and Generali when we met with them in January in Washington, D.C. I do have some answers, which I would like to share with the committee, at this point. On the positive development that on Thursday before the hearing I was approached by Mr. Hansmeyer from Allianz, and Mr. Hansmeyer informed me that indeed Allianz was willing to allow us to examine their books and records, and that we would be contacted, and indeed we have been contacted, by the German regulatory authorities at the NAIC to meet with them and make arrangements, and so we will be making those arrangements as quickly as possible. Generali, as you know we asked them the question, we have given them a request in writing, and we are still awaiting the answer from Generali. We have received a letter, and I received these letters on Friday, and there was a request that they be read into the record, and I will do that. This is a record from Mr. William Brodsky, who is an attorney representing Winterthur.

Let me not take up the time to read the whole letter, it will be inserted in its entirety into the record.

February 13, 1998

Dear Ms. Senn:

This is in reply to your letter of February 11, 1998 asking my client Winterthur Lebensversieherungs Gesellschaft ("Winterthur Life"), to respond to your request that it allow an on-site examination of its files and records by representatives of United States state insurance regulators. The results would constitute examination reports under the laws of the participating states.

Winterthur Life is located in, and incorporated under the laws of, Switzerland and is regulated by the Swiss authorities. It does not conduct business in the United States, and therefore, it is our position that it is not subject to the jurisdiction of federal or state courts or administrative agencies in the United States. Also, Winterthur Life is not in a position to agree to activity of United States insurance regulators in European countries. As far as Switzerland is concerned, such examinations would be regarded as violations of Swiss sovereignty and prohibited by Article 271 of the Swiss Penal Code.

Winterthur Life believes that it acted throughout World War II and to the present day in full adherence to the highest standards of business ethics. Winterthur Life believes that there was no institutional pattern of objectionable activities on its part, nor was the company part of any conspiracy to assist the Nazis in depriving Jews of their money and property, as has been claimed by plaintiffs in the putative class action in New York.

As I testified before your Working Group last December in Seattle, Rudy Rosenberg, the only plaintiff in that lawsuit who asserted a claim against my client, was found to have no claim at all.

Well before the litigation and the NAIC hearings began, members of the Winterthur Group of companies initiated efforts to find unclaimed policies from the World War II era. Searches for such policies were carried out immediately after the War in 1945, in 1947 and 1948, and once more following a Swiss Government decree in 1962. Winterthur Life Switzerland is aware of 34 life insurance policies for which no benefits could be paid upon maturity, because the beneficiaries could not be found despite investigations. The total face value of these policies does not exceed 35,000 Swiss Francs. All the amounts due from these policies were recorded in a special list to make sure that they could be paid as soon as the respective beneficiaries claimed them. Of these 34 policies, about 10 instances were found where a connection to victims of the Holocaust was possible. The names in the 10 unclaimed policies were given to the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Vienna.

In addition, searches are presently being carried out in all of the European countries where Winterthur Life had operations as well as in Switzerland yet again. As you can imagine, the task is difficult and time consuming. More than 50 years have passed since the end of the War. Many archives have been affected by the devastations of the War. Many files were destroyed at the end of the legally required periods for record keeping (10 years in some countries, 30 years in others). Nevertheless, hundreds of thousands of documents are still available, and are currently being analyzed and centrally recorded to facilitate finding and resolving open claims from the period.

Winterthur Life believes it is employing all reasonable means available to ascertain that all obligations towards policyholders and beneficiaries are met. Should cases turn up where benefits were not paid on open policies, Winterthur Life will offer the compensation due.

Recently Winterthur Life learned that a list of Jewish Holocaust Survivors is maintained by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., and a list of individuals who died in the Holocaust is maintained by the Yad Vashem of Jerusalem. Winterthur Life is making efforts to obtain the lists and is in the process of contacting both organizations to submit the names on unclaimed policies it currently has and to find out how it may cooperate with them. Should my client find any additional names in its extensive investigations it will, of course, submit them to both organizations right away.

Also, in order to further assist potential claimants and beneficiaries, a toll-free telephone line will be set up in the next few weeks to handle inquiries about policies prior to and during World War II.

Winterthur Life has always taken seriously and conscientiously any question relating to its practices and obligations, past and present, and certainly intends to do so in the future. The company is always open to respond to claims and will honor its obligations.

In view of the foregoing, especially the proactive measures my client has undertaken and the legal obstacles to such activities in Europe, I believe it would be inappropriate and unnecessary for examiners from state insurance regulators in the United State to examine Winterthur Life’s records in Europe. Perhaps your Working Group would find it helpful to consult with the Swiss insurance regulators regarding Swiss law and the role of Swiss insurance companies during the period.

Second, we got a letter from Mr. Jim Davis, who represents Baloise Life, and again I will not take the time to read the whole letter. It will be inserted in its entirety into the record.

January 6, 1998

Dear Ms. Senn:

As you know, we are attorneys for Baloise Life. On December 30, in response to your letter of December 19, I left a message with your office, advising that Dr. Schauble would not be able to attend the executive session of the Working Group on Holocaust Insurance Issues on January 15. Although scheduling posed a major problem, the Company’s decision was also motivated by continuing threats of regulatory action by State Insurance Departments, and by issues related to the pending litigation in New York, including the recent intervention motion of the California Department of Insurance and Mr. Fagan’s report that insurance departments in other states also wish to intervene.

As the litigation and hearings continue, Baloise Life will continue to apply itself faithfully to the amicable resolution of all inquiries presented by individual claimants. The litigation and hearings, however, have created an environment in which the discussions you have in mind for the executive session are not an inviting prospect. The problem is exacerbated by the open hostility conveyed to the European insurers by some Commissioners — from a moral high ground they have claimed as their sole province. At the very least, it is an impractical place from which to start a dialogue.

For these same reasons, Baloise Life will not be sending a representative to the hearings scheduled for January 13 and 14 in San Francisco, and will not open its files for inspection in Basle, as you requested in Seattle. As I recently advised, the inspection issue also raises questions under Swiss criminal law.

Would you and Mr. Quackenbush kindly see that this letter and the text of my talk in Seattle are read into the record in San Francisco and Washington. A copy of the Seattle text is enclosed for your convenience.

So those are two letters that we have received, and I only commend them to the committee’s attention because we will have representatives from those companies here today and they will be available I assume to answer questions. Finally, as a bookkeeping matter, I forgot to mention who from the working group is here today, and it is the state of Washington, Commissioner Quackenbush from California, Karen Asher-Cohen from the state of Florida, Ron Kreiter from Kentucky, Allan Pursnell from Louisiana, Commissioner Jay Angoff from Missouri, Paul DeAngelo from New Jersey, and Steve Kinion from Oklahoma. Did I miss anyone? Oh yes, we have Sue Cogswell from Connecticut. Have I missed anybody? Okay. So let me just say in closing that I want to once again thank Superintendent Levin for organizing this wonderful turnout today. We of course have many groups working on this issue on behalf of survivors. The American Jewish Congress, the U.S. Congress, the trial lawyers, the different states, the commissioners, members of state legislatures that we’ve heard at all the hearings. I’ll just say this to the working group. It is very important that we not lose focus on the goal here, as we have not, to maximize recovery for the survivors and determine what should be done on behalf of the heirless. At its heart, the Holocaust insurance issue is about justice. The unpaid claims of survivors, their heirs, and the heirless victims of the Holocaust represent families and hard work, and hard-earned premiums paid to insurers to protect their loved ones, and so that is why we are here today. And so with that, I’ll turn it back over to Superintendent Levin. <inaudible question from audience>

Superintendent Levin. Sir, everybody is going to have an opportunity to testify, so, there’s an agenda, so thank you. Everybody will have an opportunity to be heard. Thank you. Let me just commend Commissioner Senn for this, I’m a poet and didn’t know it. Commend Commissioner Senn for all of her hard work in pursuing this issue as tenaciously as she has. Let me also, and I apologize for the delay in beginning, but I would like to offer our other colleagues, the two other commissioners who are here today, the opportunity to say some remarks, because I do think it’s worthwhile to hear what is happening in some of the other states. First, let me invite Chuck Quackenbush, the commissioner from the State of California, to say a few words.

Commissioner Chuck Quackenbush. Thanks. I think the subject is quite apparent to all of you here, and you’re all very well-informed about what’s going on. It strikes me as really a scandal that we have to sit here, 53 years after the end of World War II and be discussing something like paying off the victims of the Holocaust and giving them the money that they’re due. It’s outrageous. I would send a message to carriers who are here, and insurance representatives who are here. This is not a discussion or a negotiation as to what’s going to happen. There’s only one acceptable solution, and that is complete and full compensation for victims of the Holocaust. I’ll tell you that we’re not discussing how we’re going to handle the next Holocaust, we’re not talking about how we’re going to work out some market-conduct exam that we’ve just had, or what type of penalty we’re going to have to pay. The terms are absolute. They’re absolute. California’s moving very aggressively in this direction to ensure that victims that I have living in my state are completely compensated, and I’m not requesting information. I’m not requesting cooperation. I’m in fact demanding it. That’s all that’s going to be acceptable for carriers that do business in California on this issue. You want to fight us on technicalities, you want to play games with subpoenas, you go right ahead. You’ll find that in California, the ability to do business in the state as an insurance company is a privilege. It is not a right. It is a privilege that I extend as commissioner. And I won’t be extending that privilege to any company that doesn’t want to cooperate fully, without question, in this process. I want to let you know what’s occurring in that regard. Now I have subpoenaed Generali, I’ve subpoenaed their officers, I’ve subpoenaed all of their records to be submitted to me for examination. I don’t expect a discussion on that, and I don’t expect a lot of quibbling. I expect the records. I expect the information. And I want to put this whole matter to rest very quickly. Those are the terms that you have in California to do business. I’m intervening in the lawsuit here in New York to assert jurisdiction everywhere I can. I expect to work cooperatively with Superintendent Levin and with Commissioner Senn and with every other commissioner in the NAIC to bring this issue to a conclusion. And it will be brought to a conclusion, it will be favorable, or you won’t be doing business in California. Thank you.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you Commissioner Quackenbush from the State of California. Director Jay Angoff from Missouri.

Director Jay Angoff. Thank you very much. I think everybody can see how committed this committee is to doing whatever it’s possible to do to make sure that victims of the Holocaust receive what they’re entitled to. I think it’s also important to determine exactly the extent, if any, to which the European insurers did collaborate before, during and after the War, and I hope during the course of this hearing, and in further hearings, and in the lawsuit, some of the information comes out. Thank you very much.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you very much. If we could then begin with the first witnesses, and that would be Israel Singer from the World Jewish Congress and Elan Steinberg from the World Jewish Congress, and it looks like Neil Sherer (sp?) as well.

Mr. Israel Singer. Good morning, Superintendent Levin. I want to take this opportunity to thank you. When we began the struggle for restitution from banks, when we began the struggle for restitution from governments, when we began the struggle for restitution anew only several years ago, we were discouraged from doing so because it was assumed that it was far too late. We never imagined, Superintendent Levin, that Commissioner Quackenbush, Commissioner Senn, Director Angoff, Commissioners Kreiter, DeAngelo, Cooper, Kinion, that Ellen Wilcox, Janice Friebaum, Karen Asher-Cohen from Florida, would be joining you with the sense of outrage that has been expressed today by all of you at the wrongs that have been done to individuals who are citizens of your states and of the United States of America. None of this would be happening without your clout. All of the moral voices that we brought to bear, all of the legal efforts that we have attempted to bring to bear in this question, would’ve come to naught. And I would like to say that in a moral way that I’m only sorry that people of your temper, and people of your morals, and people of your sense of justice did not exist during the time of the Holocaust. People would not have been turned away from these borders, their monies would not have been placed in secret accounts, and we would not have the possible cooperation today of companies today like Allianz and Generali, and to my surprise, the letter that you read, Commissioner Senn, from companies like Winterthur that continue to behave as they did for the last 50 years. I’m certain, Commissioner Quackenbush, I’m sure, Superintendent Levin, I know, Commissioner Senn, that letter is only an opening response. We shall not stand by and watch this happen. Not with regard to art, not with regard to banks, not with regard to insurance companies, not with regard to real property, not with regard to the hard-earned properties of persons that were, in a most planned way, part of the Holocaust. I’d like to spend a few minutes before my colleague Elan Steinberg deals with details, to outline how we got here and why we got here this late. It’s not your fault, it’s ours. It’s not your fault that you have taken the cudgels up for us and for the people we represent. I spoke yesterday with the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors that were having their national meeting, who, together with the World Gathering of Holocaust Survivors with the presidents of the two groups Ben Meid and Moshe Zanbar (sp?) authorized us to come here today to represent Holocaust survivors world-wide. A very large number of them, possibly the largest number of them, and to tell you that we instituted these moral claims, which were followed by legal claims made by class-action suits, which we welcome, which we support, which we encourage, which we shall never seek to undermine, which we shall continue to cooperate with, and which we consider part of the judicial system in America, which shall help us ultimately bring justice to individuals as well as to those who cannot speak for themselves, who cannot speak through you. So legally, let us describe two issues that are presently taking place. One: class-action suits for persons who have an issue which they are bringing to courts, which is a way of trying to bring relief, which you support, and which you lend your moral and legal and administrative authority to. Second: the voices of those represented by the World Jewish Restitution Organization, founded by the World Jewish Congress and the Conference on Jewish Material Claims, where such matters deal with companies in Germany and Austria, whom again the World Jewish Congress helped found, to represent those who have not made claims and those who are unable to make claims because they were wiped out. Our colleagues on the Claims Conference have spoken to some of you at previous hearings. They will speak here again today. It’s true, Generali and Allianz have begun to cooperate with us. Late, but not never. The results of those efforts will be seen by yourselves and will be judged by the world. They have not been judged kindly to date. They have not been judged kindly because despite all of the efforts that have been made by us, with banks, and all of the publicity which has been brought to bear, and with all of the efforts that have been made to make this matter a world-class justice attempt, by people like Governor Pataki, by people like Senator D’Amato, by people like Congressman Leach, who have brought this matter to world attention, not yet succeeded in getting these people to throw all their files open. In fact, as we sit here, The Economist reports only yesterday, in their issue, that files may be being destroyed while we speak. We’ve had that experience. I’m a member of the Volker Commission that deals with the Swiss banks, that indeed have made offers like the one described by you in the letter, Commissioner Senn, from Winterthur, which was the initial response after 50 years that said there’s $32 million dollars after they said that there was a fraction of that 20 years, after they originally said that there was 393,000 Swiss francs in 1949, after they originally said that in all of the Swiss banks in total, there was a fraction of the $32 million dollars which when we came to them two years ago they finally found. And the reason for that we found for that was they destroyed their records, they claim legally. But morally, there is no defense. Because if they want goodwill, which you can authorize them to have in your states, to operate in this country, and indeed, possibly after your efforts, in other countries, we aim to make it public that these are people that people shouldn’t do business with. We aim to go to the very heart of their business, and to say that if they cannot act in a manner in which they give assurance to the insurance policies which they write, they are not institutions which we find worthy. But if we say it, it has no meaning. If you say it, they’re out of business. And for that we’ve come to thank you today. We’ve come to tell you that we couldn’t have done it without you. Neither the class-action lawyers, nor ourselves, because in the end, power exists only with the power of the pen, which has been given to you by the people. Mao was wrong. You have the ultimate power to make this right. To make this good again. And we appeal to you to continue doing what you’ve done. I’m sure this is not the final one of the hearings that you’re going to hold. This is the final one that’s being held in the middle of February in 1998. I know Superintendent Levin. I know the way he has dealt with Swiss banks when he was commissioner of banks of this state. I know the fear of Cain that he’s put into every single person who decided that only 94% of the files are not in existence, and those 6% are going to be a process which is going to be hell to go through. And I know that he’s going to look at authorizing every single bank that does business in this state, and his successor will do the same, with regard to banks, if indeed they find it impossible to cooperate with the Volker Commission. It’s a Volker-like process that we want people to cooperate with today. I don’t understand what Winterthur is saying when they say to you, Commissioner Senn, that the laws of Switzerland don’t permit them to cooperate with outside commissions, what in the world are they doing in the Volker Commission? Why have we been sitting for hundreds and hundreds of hours, spending a fortune, trying to recreate fragmentary records, while they were destroying those records all the while, while we’re sitting with them, and now they come to you on the insurance front and they say, the law doesn’t permit us. What kind of laws don’t permit justice? What kind of laws don’t permit equity? What kind of morality writes letters like this? What kind of scandalous behavior tells old people that have an average age of 79 years old, that the 50 years they’ve spent trying to get their money back is again going to be protected by Mickey Mouse laws written by people who don’t understand what malum in se is. That don’t know the distinction between malum prohibitum and malum in se. We just read, this past week, the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not steal still reads in my book. Let me get the facts, and only raise a couple of them. Let me raise a couple of points. We went to see some of the insurance companies at first. They treated us the way some of the banks treated us at first. The way some of the museums treated us at first. They told us that they have nothing, and all that they had was given back. But that wasn’t as heinous as the way they treated the survivors themselves. We’ve organized ourselves now, and we stand as a solid group. They’ve tried to divide us from the class-action suit people. They’ve tried to get settlements which were small. They tried to buy us off. They’re not going to [succeed]. I stand before you today as a supplicant, and ask you, to listen to a small story, which was told by the president of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, Ben Meid. He said every Friday, when the insurance salesmen who used to come to his house to collect the weekly portion of the small premium that eventually would be the source of the family’s total savings, sometimes his father and mother needed to decide whether they would buy fish for the Sabbath or pay the premium. And in almost all cases, because they had so many children and such a poor existence, they chose to pay the insurance premium and not buy the fish for the Sabbath and only ate cholah – bread – that week. Not one penny has been returned to his family. Not one response has been given to his family. And not one response has been given to so many other families. 800 numbers are good vehicles, but many of the people who could be calling those numbers are dead. They’re dead because many of the people who were directors, thank you, Superintendent Levin, of the insurance companies, those same murderers organized the death of the people, as well as the theft of their property. I’d like to address one point, before we go to specifics, and I’d like to stress it here, because this is the city of New York, the home of the largest number of Holocaust survivors outside of Israel. I’d like to stress that point to you. What you’ve done now is renewed humanity and its belief in itself. The attempt of World War II was the attempt to dehumanize an entire nation, a people. They wanted to dehumanize them for moral and racial reasons, but also for financial reasons. When you take a person’s human rights, and you remove them by dehumanizing that person, that person no longer has the right to live. But that person also no longer has financial rights. What you’re doing is restoring to the living and to the dead, their human rights in this effort. This is not only about money, and about licensing insurance companies. It’s about taking six million people and rehumanizing dry bones. It’s about taking dead people and saying they have rights to live and did not have rights to have their money stolen. You have taken history, after 50 years, and re-written it. This date, and with every one of your efforts, and it’s for this that I come to commend you and thank you and tell you that we will be doing this as often and as early as you can, because of the age of the survivors. Mr. Quackenbush, Superintendent Levin, Ms. Senn, I’ve met you, now, and I want to tell you that my parents would have had a different kind of life had you been around. I said that before, and I’m saying it now. When we come to this great country and some of us as first generation immigrants and we say to you, thank you, but we say to you that there are vehicles available to us which we shall use. We shall use every method that we can to sue who we can, to pressure where we can, and to inform where that is the only thing that we can do. We shall inform, and that’s our main duty, the entire world of what’s going on here. As often and as early as we can. Let me be specific on this…<end of tape>…sitting here, at the companies, because in certain parts of the world, there were no destruction of records. There was only one ball-bearing factory in Switzerland destroyed by a bombing. It was protected, I know, because my wife is Swiss. She lived in Switzerland. Records were destroyed only by people who wanted to destroy the rights of individuals. It was a safe haven. Neither in banks nor insurance companies, those records were never thrown away. My wife still has the first laundry ticket from the day after our wedding. She keeps everything. And that’s just our personal family archives. She’s Swiss. She’s an American today, but she hasn’t lost the good qualities. They have every record even if they formally destroyed those records. Germans have as many records as they can have. My mother grew up in a German-speaking country. They don’t throw anything away, and they keep copies of everything they threw away. I want you to know that it’s your duty and your obligation, as it is ours, not only to find out what they have, but what they have thrown away. From that we will be able to extrapolate, indeed, what the total universe of what they had was, and indeed, what it is worth today. What it is worth today with interest. Because that is what the Volker Commission ordained. The Volker Commission ordained that we’re going to find out what the universe that exists is like, to extrapolate what the universe was like based upon that universe that we found, and to add interest to it. All of this is being done professionally. An effort of two years and hundreds of hours of work. The same kind of work should be done in the field of insurance and will be done. And I thank you for your efforts, and I thank you for putting this into the realm of morality and for resuscitating the lives of those who bought the policies and for reassuring those who are the heirs of those policies, in those cases where people are alive and individual heirs, and in those cases where they’re not alive, the Jewish people who are their heirs and for whom we make a claim. My colleague Elan Steinberg will speak of individual statistics and specifics and I shall, hopefully at the end summarize. I’m sorry I’ve taken up so much time. Thank you.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you, Israel, before we move on to Elan, let me also thank you for your efforts. Clearly, you have been out there, toiling in the vineyards on this issue for years and years, and again, in recent times this has come to light, but you clearly are to be commended and thanked for your commitment to this issue. For personal reasons, for professional reasons, and for your sense of humanity, for really being as tenacious as you have been. And so for that, as a New Yorker, as a Jewish New Yorker, I thank you. For Elan and Neil, just in the interest of time, if you could try to move along as quickly as we can. Thank you.

Mr. Elan Steinberg. Thank you. I will indeed try to be very brief. I must say that yesterday, I had the honor and the challenge to follow my colleague, Israel Singer, in addressing the Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, and could hardly meet the challenge yesterday, and I don’t expect to somehow meet the challenge of his articulate statement today. But let me make, just very brief observations, if I may. Let me join my colleague in extending my thanks, my appreciation, my sense of wonderment in what you have been doing. I feel the wings of history beating about us today. I don’t think any of us can somehow escape, dare I say that, that cosmic reality today. Having said that, let me be a bit more pedestrian. Let me be a bit more mundane. The letter that I heard read to us from Winterthur is, to my mind, obscene. Had that letter been read two years ago, I would have been disappointed. But for such a letter to be written today totally ignores the developments of the last two years. It’s not simply the unwillingness to engage in a transparent process. It is references to such restrictions as the 1962 legislation in Switzerland, which two years ago, the Swiss banks referred to, as having forced them to open up and deal with Holocaust-era accounts. By everyone’s account today, that 1962 piece of legislation was a sham. It was a sham, and recognized now, not simply by the World Jewish Congress, or Senator D’Amato’s bank committee, or Chairman Leach’s bank committee, but even in Switzerland, even the banks themselves recognize that 1962 legislation had nothing to do with really turning back accounts to those who owned them. So in 1998, for Winterthur to actually make reference to that, is why I refer to it as an obscenity. Let me just skip ahead to something I had referred to in the same bank committee hearings that Commissioner Senn and Commissioner Quackenbush addressed, I think it was on Thursday, at the House of Representatives. We will, at the end of this month, seek to be releasing a very detailed study on the total material damage done to the Jewish people during the second World War. It has been a very painful undertaking, but a necessary one. Let me simply give three broad items that have emerged from the inquiry. By material damage we mean how much was stolen in material terms from the Jewish people. And there are three categories of what was stolen. First, there were assets that were seized. The bank accounts, the insurance policies, the artworks, patents, trademarks, a whole series of subcategories there. A second category in determining material damage was the loss of income to those who were incarcerated and ultimately killed. A third category is the lost wages for those who were employed in slave labor. I’m simply going to refer to the first category, the actual assets seized. The total assets seized in 1940 to ’45 dollars was $12 billion dollars in 1945. To give you a sense of what that is today, consumer price index has risen 11 times in that period. Just multiplying by ten because the arithmetic is easy, we’re talking on the order of assets seized of about $120 billion plus dollars. Of that $120 billion plus, or $12 billion in 1945, the largest single category, it will emerge, were insurance policies. I can’t give you a precise figure yet, but it’s bigger than gold, it’s bigger than personal jewelry, it’s bigger than bank accounts, it may however, only be smaller than real estate, which was in the hands of a smaller group. But nevertheless, it will make up a significant portion. So we are talking about assets which were taken from the Jewish people, as one Swiss banker once put it, were peanuts. They were not peanuts. I will simply leave at this point, and simply ask Neil Sherer (sp?) to report on a meeting he had in Munich with Allianz, one of the larger insurance companies.

Mr. Neil Sherer. Thanks, Elan. If you think you had it tough, I have to come after both you and Israel, and that’s not easy. I was part of a delegation sent on behalf of the WJC and the WJRO late last year in December to meet at the highest levels with officials of Allianz. We met in Munich, Stuttgart and in Berlin, to review the files, to review what Allianz has been doing over the last year or so with regard to Holocaust claims and related matters. There were discussions, and they’re going to speak later today, but there were discussions of establishing the type of process Superintendent Levin alluded to in his introductory remarks, and the establishment of a fund. And as I said, we met at the highest levels, including the president of the company. I think that we see, through the efforts that are ongoing now, including this process here, that progress has been made on some fronts, some important progress. Obviously there’s a way to go. I can tell you, as someone who spent 15 years as the chief prosecutor of Nazi criminals for our government, these issues, the final issues regarding the Holocaust, the last chapter, if you will, have a tremendous moral bearing on this country, on the history that will be written about the American response to the Holocaust. We all know what the United States didn’t do to save Jews, and didn’t do to bomb Auschwitz, but I think these final chapters because even though it is 40 or 50 years too late, groups such as yourselves, and others, are not letting it just slide into history. We are hopeful that the progress that has been made thus far will continue. These are initial steps, and I think that with the assistance of this august body, we will be able to make even further progress. Thank you.

Mr. Singer. Thank you, Neil. One more word in summary, if I can, it will be short. I’m very concerned about three items. Item number one, as I said, record destruction. While we’re sitting here, we have experience, records were destroyed by banks after laws in Switzerland outlawed record destruction. If a clarion call could come forward from this meeting in New York, no record that exists at this moment that will be found to have been destroyed by an insurance company associated with any company dealing with companies in the United States will be viewed as something which is impossible to accept. Point number two, that all those who enter into the process, enter into the process under terms which are acceptable, which are transparent. Point number three, that they not attempt, as insurance companies, to operate in a manner which will be operating through subterfuges or through brokers or through people who are trying to make settlements by cutting the actual moral question and that is what was said by all of you, the return of that which was the property of individuals. We don’t want private deals which are not public, which are not known to the world, which are not seen and transparent to the entire world. I think that all three of those are critical issues, and I think the rest will fall into place.

Superintendent Levin. Israel, let me just respond to the first of your recommendations. Let it be said publicly today, and I think my colleagues are free to speak for themselves, that I would ask that all European insurance companies as of today would be served with notice that we would expect them to suspend any document destruction programs in place and that there would be a discussion with regard to what documents were being destroyed, that there would be focus at the most senior level of the company. Clearly I would say that we do not want to have a repeat of what happened with Christopher Meile and Union Bank of Switzerland. I think that enough is enough already, after 50 or 60 years, we would take that and ask that as of today, people are on notice. And I think that if we eventually get into a process, or get our examiners overseas and find that documents were destroyed after February 16, 1998, I know I personally will not take kindly to that and I would ask my colleagues to speak for themselves. Let me also just say that I agree with your comments, Israel, as well as Neil’s comments. I don’t mean to exclude you, Elan, but we all have an opportunity to rewrite history and we can all look back on the wartime period and that chapter and say how we all might have done things differently, even here in the United States. This is the opportunity to rewrite history. This is the accounting, this is the opportunity to make a difference. We thank you for your commitment and your thoughts.

Commissioner Senn. We need to move on, so two very quick comments. First of all, Elan, with regard to your study, you’ve got a number for total assets, and what we’d like to do is sit down with you and take a look at what you’ve looked at thus far so that we can coordinate with you, because we have not as yet determined the number of insurance policies. We have actuaries looking at it, we’re determining the methodology to figure it out, but it would be very important. We agree with you that the number probably is the largest, and we think it would be very important to put a dollar figure on it. So we would like to do that with you.

Mr. Steinberg. To respond specifically, in Yad Vashem, in Jerusalem, there are lists of persons who were insurance brokers acting for individual insurance companies who have actual names and addresses. Those names and addresses also exist within the tax records of certain countries, particularly the Czech Republic. We could cross-reference in databases, the names of brokers, the number of accounts which they had, the tax figures which they entered into the government tax rolls. There are ways of extrapolating which we can discuss at leisure.

Commissioner Senn. Okay. Risk International is going to work for the NAIC and the various states and they should take note, because that’s one of the top questions that we’re looking at. Number two, let me just address your point about the destruction of records. Let me echo Superintendent Levin, but actually go a step further. Destruction of records, particularly when there is a search for claims, potential examination, is something that is governed by the statutes of the various states. It is taken very seriously and large penalties can attach. So absolutely the insurers should be on notice, but I have been assuming all along that they have been on notice that there is an issue out here, there are claimants filing claims and short of anything that they would argue took place to this having started, and I’m not even sure that I would accept that, these records, in my department, we’ve got life insurance policy records from 100 years ago because people have a long life span. So there should not have been any destruction of records in the last 50 years. But I’m assuming, I agree with Superintendent Levin, the carriers are on notice that the records are simply not to be destroyed and penalties can ensue if that is the case.

Director Angoff. Rabbi Singer, I’ve just got one question. I’d like you to comment on some testimony that we heard in our last two hearings, which I was pretty troubled by, and that’s the following. Generali took the position that, essentially, they’re victims of the Holocaust just like all the other victims, that they were founded by Jews, they’ve always been run by Jews, today they’re headed by a survivor, and in effect, what they tried to do during the War was to hide Jews. They were victims just like anyone else. Could you please comment on that.

Mr. Singer. Having unfortunately a lot of experience in the last few years with regards to restitution, let me put this in a context. I was informed by the Volker Commission, by some of my counterparts on the Swiss banking side, you could encounter the fact that there were indeed Jewish bankers, certainly Jewish intermediaries, and possibly Jewish attorneys. What do you have to say to that, Mr. Singer? And my response to that was thou shalt not steal applies to Jews as well. And that’s my answer to you, Director Angoff. I would like to tell you that I don’t know, whether indeed Generali behaved in a manner that was exemplary because it was run by Jews, but the rules that apply to that company should be the same as those rules that apply to every other insurer whether they’re run by Jews or not. Period.

Commissioner Quackenbush. I just wanted to re-emphasize what we said about document destruction. This is an activity that goes on occasionally within American companies, and it is dealt with on a routine harsh basis by commissioners across the country. We’ve had to do it with some major life companies in enforcement actions that have occurred. I think the message I would want to send on an issue like this is that this is going to be suspected of every one of you carriers who is involved in this issue. It’s just natural that after 53 years, if you’ve been denying claims that long, you would intend, through some kind of subterfuge, to continue to deny them, or to continue to deny your complicity in trying to deny those claims. I think the best way to solve that problem, the perception problem, the reality problem, is answer the simple question that I would have, [which] is, [if] I put a team together, which I could, and put them on a plane tomorrow, which I could, would they be welcome to your archives? Could they walk in the door and have complete and total access to your files? And you can say yes to that, and a lot of this pain, a lot of the critical looks you’re getting from many of us here on this panel, will go away very easily. And that’ll be a question I’ll be asking when you come up here to testify. Think about the answer to that.

Commissioner Senn. I’m sorry, I forgot a second point, very quickly, just in response to some of the comments about the letters. Clearly we don’t agree with what we are being told, and I’m sure you understand that. And secondly, just on the issue of protection of records, last week in Philadelphia when we did have our hearing, the committee did address this issue. We have had some complaint from survivors that they’re sending in a claim, they’re sending in a file, and it disappears. In order to protect the claims that we do have, the committee agreed last week that we’re going to bundle all the claims amongst the various states so that anything we do submit to the companies, we do submit together. We’re going to address that later today.

Superintendent Levin. Our next speaker today is actually a speaker himself. He is the Speaker of the New York State Assembly, the Honorable Sheldon Silver. Speaker Silver, as many of you who are from New York know, is the senior Democrat in the state of New York and is the leading person in the Assembly in New York State. Speaker Silver, before you begin, let me also mention, I had offered some introductory remarks before you arrived, let me again say publicly, to thank you for all of your support on this important issue. You have your own passions with regard to this issue, but let me thank you from my previous job as Superintendent of Banks and all the support you’ve provided to myself and to the department over there, let me thank you for what you’ve been doing on the insurance issue, and last but not least, let me thank you for your important role for supporting the funding for the Holocaust Claims Office which clearly could not be done without your support. So on all those points I thank you.

Speaker Sheldon Silver. Thank you, and good morning. Let me first thank you, Superintendent Levin, for hosting this hearing. Your efforts to shed light to the dark vaults of the world’s financial institutions, first banks, now insurance companies, so that justice might finally be restored to the victims of the Holocaust and their families are deserving of praise and recognition. On behalf of the New York State Assembly, my constituents and all who strive to see that justice is served, I thank you. I testify before you today, not just as the Speaker of the Assembly, but as a Jew, as a resident of a community that is second only to the Nation of Israel in the number of people who are survivors of the Holocaust. As an elected official who has looked in their eyes and listened to their memories, that systematic, genocidal pogrom, I am deeply committed to ensuring that they see justice served in their lifetime. I am here today to help you carry out that mission: to get a full accounting of policies issued to Holocaust victims and survivors from those insurance companies doing business in this state of New York. Those that are, or have been affiliated with a European insurance company that did business in the World War II era, and to see that those accounts are settled. It has been said that justice will be served when every last penny has been returned to the Jews. Certainly that is a giant step in the right direction, and just as certainly, the Jewish people will not relent until every single asset is returned to its rightful owner. But it is a mistake to think that this hearing, the Swiss bank investigation, or any of the investigations that have followed it are only about money. This is not some morbid accounting exercise. It’s a struggle for truth, a struggle to recover our past, a struggle to find out who we are. It is part of our obligation to care for our own, the poor, the weak, the vulnerable, and to restore to the aging survivors of the Holocaust, and to their families, the dignity and quality of life to which they are entitled. Almost exactly a year ago, Holocaust survivors and their descendents, Jewish leaders and state and federal representatives, Ambassador DeFago (sp?) of Switzerland and representatives of the nations’ three major banks addressed a hearing that I held in this city. Painful stories were told of atrocities and death, of account numbers whispered to loved ones in the waning moments of life, and of financial institutions that denied Jewish families access to those accounts because there were no death certificates. I expect you will hear the same stories today. I also heard promises then, from the Swiss that accounts would be settled promptly, that the banks would establish a special fund for needy Holocaust survivors, that every penny would be returned. I expect that you will hear similar promises. The year that has passed since that hearing has taught us a valuable lesson: that for some, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow. We have witnessed a lot of foot-dragging, indignation and token gestures. It was not until Senator D’Amato brought national pressure to bear, when City Comptroller Alan Hevesi took action against Swiss banks doing business in New York, that we really began to receive the full cooperation of the Swiss banks. Many had warned them not to move against the banks. They urged both to be delicate with the fragile Swiss ego. As we add insurance companies to this investigation, let’s make one thing clear. We have no time, or patience, for bruised egos, or tarnished images, or people who cannot face the truth. Six million Jews, men, women and children, were slaughtered. Two billion dollars worth of gold was taken from Jewish families. Some of it – wedding rings, gold teeth, ripped from their bodies. Nations that had portrayed themselves as "good guys" during the War have admitted to deporting Jews to concentration camps and to accepting Nazi gold in exchange for materials that aided the Nazi onslaught. Today, Holocaust survivors still have not received full restitution. There can be no delay. We can’t wait for promises to be fulfilled. We must start this investigation with strong action right out of the gate. Congressman Elliot Engel has already introduced federal legislation that speaks to the insurance issue. I applaud that initiative. But the fact of the matter is states regulate insurance, and the state of New York is home to many of the largest and oldest insurance companies in the world. It may well be the case that not a single one of these companies is holding or possesses knowledge of a single policy taken out by a Holocaust victim. But we know that such policies exist, and we have seen that wealth can warp one’s sense of right and wrong. It is not outside the realm of possibility then, that foreign insurance companies doing business in New York may be holding Holocaust-era insurance policies. Either way, we must know the truth. To that end, I proposed legislation that will give you, Mr. Superintendent, new powers to reveal the truth. The bill, Assembly 9320, will require insurance companies doing business in the state of New York, to do the following: 1) report any legal relationship it has, now or in the past, with a European insurance company that was doing business between the years 1920 and 1945; 2) diligently and expeditiously investigate any claim made by a Holocaust survivor, or the descendant of a Holocaust victim or survivor; and 3) to ease the standards required of Holocaust survivors, their heirs, or the heirs of Holocaust victims, who may not possess death certificates or other such documentation, when substantiating claims. In addition, the bill will increase the penalties that you may assess on insurance companies who fail to comply with these requirements. It will direct the New York State Banking Department to also investigate insurance claims and it will establish, within the Office of Holocaust Claims, a telephone hotline to deal exclusively with insurance claims. When this bill becomes law, I will urge you not to hesitate in exercising these powers. I’d like to end this testimony with something that was said by the previous witness at the Assembly’s Swiss bank hearing. He said, 113 members of my mother’s family were slaughtered on one day, thrown into a pit and covered by thousands of others. No one spoke for them. If we do not speak for others, there will be no one left to speak for us. Superintendent Levin, you and I have a responsibility to speak for the victims and survivors of the Holocaust and their heirs. We must speak loudly, and demand swift responses. Our people have waited for justice through an entire Cold War. It is our job to help bring that waiting period to an end. The legislation that I have proposed will give you the power to expedite that waiting time and cut through the maze and see that justice is done in the insurance field. I thank you for being here today and paying attention to this most important issue.

Superintendent Levin. Speaker Silver, let me again commend you for your efforts on the part of Holocaust survivors. Let me also say that I will look at the legislation and clearly we are not shy about suggesting that we may need additional powers and look forward to working with you with regard to the legislation. Does anybody have any other questions?

Commissioner Quackenbush. Mr. Speaker, when I was in the California Assembly we did a lot of work on these economic sanctions-type issues against countries that were doing things that we thought were reprehensible, most notably South Africa. Is there any work going on in the New York Assembly involving divestiture of any investment by the state of New York of companies that are involved with these European insurers? I find that the European insurance companies are rather interwoven into the fabric of a lot of the insurance relationships of the United States, we’re a global economy, and I was wondering if you had looked at that idea, rejected it, or if it’s still under review?

Speaker Silver. I think it’s still under review. I think we looked to this investigation, and some guidance from the World Jewish Congress, who we have worked closely with in the past, to see if there are specific instances that are worthy of sanctions. Under this legislation, we give the Superintendent of Insurance a daily right to fine companies who he finds are not cooperating with this investigation and also those that are not complying with the needs of survivors who are making claims. We put that right into the statute as to this particular investigation.

Commissioner Quackenbush. We had a situation recently develop in California where Treasurer Matt Fong ceased investment and doing business with Swiss banks, and after a change in attitude we once again began that investment, but I think you ought to take a look at that. I was just curious.

Speaker Silver. We have some legislation pending. Up until recently we have been advised by the World Jewish Congress not to pass the legislation because they were working with various groups in this area. But that shall serve as a hammer ready to be used for enforcement purposes if all these efforts fail.

Superintendent Levin. Are there any other questions? Speaker Silver, thank you very much. <thank you> For those of you out in the audience with your coats on, we have asked the hotel to turn up the heat, so we’ll keep our cold fingers crossed. Our next speaker today is Senator Alfonse D’Amato. Senator D’Amato, as you all know, has championed this issue for the last few years and has made a significant contribution in bringing to light many of the practices which we have talked about today on the part of the Swiss banks or the European insurance companies. Let me also again commend and thank Senator D’Amato for his tireless efforts in the pursuit of justice. Senator D’Amato, thank you for being with us today.

Senator Alfonse D’Amato. Superintendent Levin, members of your commission and the board, I am tremendously encouraged by your coming together, by your recognition of the situation and by your holding this hearing, and not only this hearing, but the working group that you have put together. I want to commend you because while we have in the Congress concentrated a number of our efforts, both the House and Senate Banking Committees, to make determinations with respect to primarily the victims of the Holocaust and the assets as it related to banks, you have been working quietly, steadily and purposefully in the other area as it relates to the life insurance companies during that horrific period of time. Today, you focus on the conduct of the insurance companies that profited directly at the expense of the victims of the Holocaust, the European insurance companies. From the historical information that we have recovered, or uncovered, it is clear, and I mean to emphasize that, and that’s why I have asked Rudy Rosenberg to accompany me to the witness table, because he will make known to you, in his words, what he saw taking place and what his family experienced, one of the most horrific acts of piracy, banditry, cold-calculated mercenary of the lives of those who died during this period of time. And I’m talking about the deliberate effort to target European Jews for profits before the Nazis targeted them for destruction. Companies actually sought and received premiums up front, with no expectation of paying the claims in the end. In one of the most important historical works on the Holocaust entitled "The Destruction of the European Jews," Raul Hilberg wrote that insurance policies will be an interesting problem if any documentation was available. Today, fortunately, there is documentation available, and it is disturbing. In his short section on the subject, Hilberg pointed out that the insurance companies deliberately sought to avoid paying the proceeds to the heirs of families of the Holocaust victims. Because of this, he concluded, and I quote, "We may assume, therefore, that the life insurance companies got away with the profits." Hilberg could not have been more correct. In the two years that the Senate Banking Committee has been researching the role of the Swiss banks during and after the War, we found a wealth of information on the operation of insurance companies in Europe that leaves no doubt as to the validity of his conclusions. During this time, we could not help but find evidence of devious and unsavory practices of the insurance companies. These companies have hidden behind the claim that policies of the Holocaust victims had already been paid. I would like to know who received the proceeds if it was not the policyholders or their heirs. European insurance companies deliberately sought out Jewish clients in order to obtain insurance premiums from them before the Nazis moved in. For Rudy Rosenberg of New York who is here with me today, this was the case. The Winterthur Insurance Company of Switzerland, who by the way, their letter, I understand, Commissioner Deborah Senn read into the record, and I must say this position is the kind of thing that those who sought just compensation in the whole area of financial services who were victimized, who saw their families destroyed during the Holocaust, faced. Incredible legal, technical barriers that have little relationship to do with justice and what was fair and the rule of equity. Equity, fairness. Those are words, it would seem, that Winterthur just doesn’t understand. I have the communiqué written to you, Commissioner, well, I guess that everyone has to make their own determination, but I certainly am shocked when I see them say that Winterthur Life is not in a position to agree to the activity of the United States insurance regulators in European countries as far as Switzerland is concerned, such examinations would be regarded as violations of Swiss sovereignty and prohibited by Article 271 in the Swiss Penal Code. Where was Swiss sovereignty when people, Jews in particular, were targeted for sales and premiums and to discourage that? Their Swiss sovereignty permits those incredible activities to take place, and they have no shame? They hide behind this kind of legal garbage? Absolutely incredible. That’s what they tell you publicly, imagine what they are doing privately to try to defeat, and have done over the years to the heirs. They’re playing for time, and they’re very successful at it. According to Mr. Rosenberg, and you can speak to him, I know you will, Jews in Brussels were targeted in the few years before the deportation of the Jewish community. The agents sold his parents a policy requesting half the premium payments up front. The other half the next year. The only problem was there was to be no next year, and the company collected premiums. Soon afterwards, the Rosenbergs, like other Jews, were deported from Belgium by the Nazis, and Mr. Rosenberg also remembered the agent asked his parents for the names of other families, other Jewish families, to visit and sell them policies under the same conditions. Think about the callousness, incredible. Talk about making money. No regard. Also here today is Grace Pillard, who wrote to me on behalf of her mother, Elsie. <end of tape>…number and the pertinent dates of the policy. With this, I wrote to Swiss Life, at her request, and asked them for information on the policy. To my surprise they answered within just a few weeks and provided detailed but incomplete information about Paul Graupe’s insurance policy. Now we know the amount of the policy, the payment history, and most importantly we learned that the policy had been surrendered. Specifically we know that the policy was surrendered on October 31, 1940. But neither the records, nor Swiss Life, can tell us with certainty the position of the benefits. In fact, we know that Mr. Graupe’s heirs did not receive the benefits, I believe the insurance company either voluntarily surrendered this policy to the Third Reich or falsified its records and never paid out the proceeds. I want to note that this voluntary surrender or falsification occurred more than a year before the Nazis passed laws requiring all insurance policies for Jews to be surrendered to the Third Reich. Most disturbing, is that this corporate misconduct occurred two years before Paul Graupe died after being deported to Minsk, according to his family. Now, Mr. Chairman, if Swiss Life kept such detailed records about Mr. Graupe’s policy, how can they claim to have no knowledge, details or information about whom they surrendered it to? This critical information is conspicuously missing from the file. Clearly, Mr. Graupe did not receive the payments, nor did his family. In further letters to Swiss Life, we pressed these points, yet they refused to answer the questions, and finally they informed me they were discontinuing their correspondence on the subject, and to this date we have not had a satisfactory answer from Swiss Life as to the disposition of the Graupe policy. Can you imagine that a responsible insurance company would admit to paying benefits on a policy and then claim that they didn’t know who they paid them to? It’s just not believable. I still would like to know who got the proceeds, and we expect an accounting from Swiss Life. That’s certainly what the families and the heirs are entitled to. I point these cases out as a matter of demonstrating anecdotally, and through people who can verify these, who are still here and are still alive, as to what took place with their families. Now, Swiss Life raised numerous questionable excuses to avoid responsibility. The same thing, I think, Commissioner, that you got in this letter from this other company, which should be ashamed of themselves, and their lawyers, I hope they’re charging them a lot of money. They should be proud of hiding behind these legal technicalities. It’s incredible, absolutely, one hell of a job they’re doing. But you know, the American people will find out about it, and know about it. And this is a matter of using our positions to let people know – what is the name of this company? <Winterthur> Say it into the mike. <Winterthur.> Winterthur, Winterthur. They’re not responsible, they don’t want us looking into these things, oh no. Our sovereignty says, hands out. It’s a fantastic letter. They better hire a new PR firm and replace this lawyer. In any event, maybe they could charge them more because I said it was a great letter. A great letter. I guess I didn’t make a friend of William Brodsky. He’s the fellow who signed this letter. Great, great letter. By the way, I’ll go on to say, just like this letter is morally bankrupt, it is morally bankrupt. Bankrupt. Morally. I have to tell you something, as commissioners, if I had these guys doing business in my town, I would do everything I could to let people know how morally bankrupt and deceitful they are. That’s what we’re going to do. That’s what we’re going to do. That’s what we should do. What’s their name? <Winterthur> Say it again. <Winterthur> Winterthur. Absolutely incredible.

Superintendent Levin. Senator, you may wish to know that Winterthur is in the process of being acquired by Credit Suisse, a company you’re not unfamiliar with.

Senator D’Amato. Well, Credit Suisse should take a look at them. Maybe they should take a step back. I wouldn’t want to buy a package of worms like this. Holy, Jesus. I wonder if Credit Suisse stands behind this letter. I think they have better PR guys, better sense. We haven’t always agreed, Credit Suisse and us in a number of areas, but they are much more forthcoming than this pack of garbage.

Superintendent Levin. I have a feeling that your staff will find out whether they’re aware of that or not.

Senator D’Amato. I can’t believe they would be. Brodsky, you wouldn’t be on my payroll long. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Well. Swiss Life raised a number of questionable practices, and I want to beg your indulgence, I want to thank the commissioners for letting me share this with you, and I’m going to wrap this up. But let me tell you what they maintained from the beginning of our conversation. They said that Mr. Graupe opened the policy in the company’s Munich office, therefore, since they opened it in the Munich office, they weren’t responsible. Can you believe this? I never heard of anything like that. But then they’d be the first to hide behind the thing of we are a Swiss company. It’s morally and legally inexcusable. Let me quote for you from 1942 a member of the British Embassy in Washington wrote a letter to the Treasury Department on the same principle and he said, "I know of no general principles," his name was F. W. McComb (sp?) "that a debtor who has a claim upon a corporate entity cannot pursue that claim either where he finds the entity or where he can attach his property." Well he was absolutely right and it’s disingenuous of Swiss Life to deny responsibility of Mr. Graupe’s policy simply because it was opened in Munich. The fact remains that the branch in Munich was part of Swiss Life, therefore the company is fully responsible. These are the kinds of legal legerdemain that they are dodging in terms of responsibilities. Mr. Graupe’s heirs are here now, and they should have this claim settled before it’s too late. The fact that he was sold the policy in Munich, and it wasn’t in Switzerland, are they saying that they weren’t part and parcel of the same company? So I think we have to examine the most comprehensive way to solve the problem. And here’s what I’d like to suggest. And I’ve suggested this just this past week through the Congress, to the House Banking Committee, and to Chairman Leach, and we’ll work together, we’ll hope to work together with this very distinguished group, and you are a distinguished group. I again want to commend you for coming forth together and undertaking this work. I have proposed the creation of an independent commission to review the company’s records along the lines of the Volker Commission, which was created in 1996. Look, nobody wanted to create the Volker Commission, and I’m sure that the insurance carriers are not going to want to do that. But it’s undertaking some important work, and we’re making some progress. I may not be happy with the speed of it, but we’re moving forward. And millions and millions of dollars as a result of the manner in which that came together have been paid out to people. So the commission would be funded by the insurance companies, would be a fully independent operation, it would be composed of historians, forensic lawyers and other experts in the field. I would suggest that the commission include representatives from the state regulatory community in this country, two, three, four members, but I would give it broad representation but not representation that would be so limited that you would not have sufficient support. That would be for you and for others to determine. Representatives of the World Jewish Congress and the Holocaust survivors, and appointments could be made by those groups representing the European insurance regulators. They should be part and parcel of this, so that their regulators would be in on this, not one-sided. The second component of this proposal would involve the state insurance regulators utilizing their enforcement power to conduct their own reviews, your own, and to work together, individually and collectively, to penalize those who are uncooperative. If these fellows, Winterthur want to continue that, okay. There are privileges that they seek. And I think that people should know, and they like to have the good stamp of your insurance agency in your state. New Jersey? I don’t know…Paul, how are you? Good to see you. My old state. They were happy to get rid of me. I moved to New York. But anyway. So for their sake, just think of the power that you have, individually and collectively, it is a very important power. I suggest that’s one of the reasons that you serve, is to use that power to bring about justice. Really. That’s what it’s all about. Why else do you get involved in this business of public service? Public service. I think sometimes we lose sight of that. We can just do incredibly good things, and that’s what we should be looking to do. Good things. Thirdly, I suggest that upon entering into this agreement, each company would also contribute to an interim fund which would be used to provide some comfort to the heirs and survivors of the Holocaust before it is too late. And that was done very successfully in the prototype that I’ve suggested, the Volker Commission, and the financial institutions set up a fund that is now helping thousands, tens of thousands of poor destitute people. For their sake, and for the sake of the survivors, I think it would be in the interest of the companies, even Winterthur, to agree to this proposal. We should make them the poster child for greed, for intransigence, for holding back in this kind of situation. I’m quite sure that most companies, most companies would not want to have their name connected with the kinds of practices that Mr. Rosenberg will testify to that took place, that the Graupes have seen taken place with them. Oh, no, we sold you that policy from a branch office in Munich, therefore we’re not responsible. I would think they would care about their good name. I would hope so. That’s pretty important in marketing today, and moreover it’s important for these companies to understand that a great deal of business in the U.S. could possibly be jeopardized. Another problem that needs to be discussed is the nationalization of insurance companies by the Communist governments of Eastern Europe after the War. If we’re to get at the heart of the problem it would be wise for us to approach this along diplomatic lines. Do you ever think I’d talk about diplomacy? But I do. Since many of those nationalized companies remain in some form or another, state-owned enterprises, I would urge that the Administration seek to seriously, that is the Clinton Administration, seek serious and detailed discussions with the countries of Eastern Europe whose previous Communist governments actually nationalized the companies. I can think of no one more suitable for the task than the man who has so ably and skillfully directed the Administration’s efforts on looted assets thus far, and that is thus far our distinguished Undersecretary of State, Ambassador Stewart Eisenstadt. For those of you who have probably read about him, met him, heard about him, Ambassador Eisenstadt is probably the leading expert in this area. No one has done more or has accomplished more, and I believe in his close work with the European Community already, could help bring about an end to a 50-year problem and provide the proper restitution and open records for the proper research and analysis. Because the governments still control the companies to some extent, they are directly and financially responsible. So in this manner, we could gain what is needed just in proper documentation. And what we’re talking about is justice, justice for the victims of the Holocaust era. European insurance companies, like the Swiss banks, have escaped justice now for over half a century. It’s wrong. It’s time for the debate and deliberation to come to an end. It’s time now for mechanisms to go forward. Swiss Life, Winterthur, and all the other European insurance companies must realize that we’re not going to allow a business-as-usual attitude. What we are seeking here is simple justice and after 50 years of stonewalling, proper and speedy restitution to the families must be made. I want the insurance companies, and the Swiss banks as well, to hear that this Senator will not stop until we see a proper pursuit of justice. I would also like to add one other thing, because we should be cognizant when progress is being made, and so I was pleased to announce and reiterate today that Generali insurance company, and I have reason to believe that there are other companies who are poised and ready to also follow suit, we have been talking to them, I think a number of commissioners, you have been talking to them, and I want to commend you for that. Generali insurance company has announced agreement this past Thursday with the idea that I put forth of an international commission. I would hope that others again will join in this important effort. I want to thank the committee for its patience. I want to encourage you. You will find many coming in many different clothes and costumes, some of them our own friends. They have their interests in suggesting we look another way and take another approach. I understand that. That’s part and parcel of the pressure. And it will be heavy, it will be heavy. You will meet all kinds of inducements to come your way to take the altered path of seeking justice. It’s part of life. And those who come will not come with two heads, or five heads. Some will be people who we’ve known, and are distinguished in the various communities, legal, financial. Some will be great philanthropics or associated with them to try to keep us from the course. Some will suggest that you’re rocking the boat maybe unnecessarily. Think about it. Think about it. I don’t know who has, or hasn’t, but you will, at some point in time. It may be people who we work with, or serve with, or serve under, maybe a combination. It will happen. I didn’t have that in my written remarks, I tell you by experience. Be true to what our purposes should be, and I believe what brought us all into this area of doing what’s right, trying to make a difference. That’s all we can ask. And again, I commend you.

Mr. Rudy Rosenberg. Thank you. Superintendent Levin, Commissioner Senn, and all the other commissioners and Senator D’Amato, thank you for inviting me here today to speak. I’d like to take a few moments to bring us all back to about 55 years ago, because 55 years ago seems like a long time. I belong to an organization called Hidden Children. I’m a Hidden Child, and it seems funny to see a 67-year-old man call himself a Hidden Child. But I am, and like all of my brothers and sisters who were Hidden Children, it’s left a mark on us which leaves us sometimes very emotional, so if I do get emotional on you, please forgive me, because the memories are right under the skin. So we go back to about the Spring or Summer of 1942, when everything was desperate. Not only for Jews, but for anyone who was under German occupation at those times. The only bright thing was that the United States had entered the War, and in the first half of 1942, the news that came from the United States participation in the War was not good. The War was going badly. The Germans were conquering Russia, they were conquering Africa, they had conquered all of Europe. My mother’s family had already been taken to concentration camps and they had all been killed by then. They were from Germany. My father’s family were from Poland, and had also suffered the same fate. If you look at my father’s family tree, which he made up years later, you’ll see a big plague happening in 1942 when all the brothers and the sisters, cousins, all the relatives, they all died of a mysterious disease in 1942. They were exterminated. Here we are, in Belgium, in double jeopardy, because not only were we Jews in Belgium, but we were stateless, or as the French would call it, apatried (sp?). We had no nationality, and foreign Jews, as opposed to Belgian Jews, had absolutely no protection. The Queen of Belgium, Queen Elizabeth, tried to protect the Belgian Jews, but the stateless, the Polish ones, the ones that had been refugees from other places, were completely without defense. At the time, we were thinking very seriously of fleeing to Switzerland. That was the only haven we thought we had, until we found out, in July 1942, that the route to Switzerland was closed to us, because Jews who tried to escape to Switzerland were usually turned away at the Swiss border, and sent back, actually, to Germany. We found this out through the grapevine, because there was a family of a German-born Jewish doctor, Dr. Saloman and his family had tried, they left just before we did, but they never made it. So instead of fleeing to Switzerland, we began to look for a place to hide in Belgium. And the fact that I am here shows that we were successful. Now, I come here today to tell you, hoping that you will tell the world around you, about a practice from the Swiss insurance company Winterthur, who targeted Jews in Belgium to sell them policies while knowing full well that we were going to be exterminated. In 1942, my family lived in Brussels, Belgium. My father’s name was Hilel, Hilel Rosenberg, and my mother’s name was Frieda, Frieda Rosenberg. There were two children, my sister Ruth and me. Because of my father’s business at the time, we were known by many other Jewish families and we knew many other Jewish families. It was a very close and threatened community at the time. In late Spring or early Summer of 1942, I was 12 years old at the time, and I remember that two men came to our home to sell my father life insurance. The two men told us they were from Winterthur. My mother, my father and I were at home, and we spoke with these men. I remember it as if it was yesterday. I don’t recall if my sister was present. They told us that they had found us because other Jews in Brussels had given them our name and I remember very well, by the way, that this conversation was in French, and they didn’t use the term Jeuf, or Jew, which in those days was always somewhat derogatory. They used the gentle term Israelite. When you spoke about Jews and you didn’t want to hurt their feelings you called them Israelite. So they had gotten our names from other Israelites in the Brussels area. The reason they came to see us was to sell us life insurance. The agents told my father that Winterthur had a special deal for us and that instead of paying the entire premium at one time, we only had to pay half down and the second half on the anniversary of the policy a year later. Before these Winterthur agents left us, they asked us for names of other Jewish families to whom they could sell more policies. They made it sound as if this was a special policy for Jews. Surely they sold hundreds, if not thousands of policies in Belgium alone, as they went from door to door pushing these "Jewish policies." In the War, the Germans killed 45 of my father’s relatives and six of my mother’s family. She had a smaller family. Everyone suffered. A total of only seven members survived. We survived by hiding in a basement for 27 months. I came to America in 1949, served three years in the U.S. Army during the Korean War, and went on to make a living and a life for myself in this country. After my father’s death in 1988, I confirmed the existence of the Winterthur policy that these two agents sold us in July 1942 when I reviewed his papers after he died. I remember that as a 12-year old, I was amazed that Winterthur would come to us and sell us a life policy even though we were doomed to die. We knew very well what was happening, and I’m convinced that Winterthur was well aware of what was happening to Jews under the German occupation. As a 12-year old I thought this was very nice. After the War, I thought it over, and I said to myself, you know these guys of Winterthur, they were really crooks. They knew, not only that we were condemned, but that we would not be around a year later to pay the second half of the policy. And if we did pay the second half, there would be nobody left. Somehow we fooled them. We survived. I don’t know about the other people. Please help us to find out how many other policies were issued to Jews and allowed to lapse. Help us to find out, or understand, how or why Winterthur targeted Jews and other future Holocaust victims in Belgium and possibly in other occupied countries so that they could play on our desperation and sell their hollow policies. Please help us find the truth. Thank you very much.

Senator D’Amato. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I’d ask, at this time, because I did speak to you of one of the cases that came to our attention and I worked on was that of Grace Graupe-Pillard, and she is here with us today to give us her account of her dealings with the insurance company that her family, her grandparents took a policy with.

Mrs. Grace Graupe-Pillard. I am a first-generation American, born in New York City, a child of refugees from Nazi Germany. I’m representing, basically, the 60 or 70 members of my family that were killed in the Holocaust. Senator D’Amato has given you the story of my grandfather, but I think certain tales need to be told over and over again. I won’t be long, I will just give you the basic facts. On May 21, 1997, I wrote a letter to Senator D’Amato’s office concerning a Swiss Life insurance policy which my grandfather, Paul Graupe, who perished in the Holocaust, purchased in 1927 from the Swiss company. The family knew there was a life insurance policy that had never been paid out to my grandfather or to any of his survivors. Over the years, some attempts had been made by family members to find out what had happened to the money. But we were frustrated at every juncture. My uncle, Heinz Graupe, one of the two sons of Paul Graupe, traveled specifically to Zurich in the late ‘50s, his first visit to Europe since the Holocaust. I remembered him going to the insurance company, and he said it was located in the center of the city, not far from the lake, where he tried to get information on the insurance matter. He was told that the policy had been paid out to the German government. He was not given any supporting documents and any other questions were essentially rebuffed. When my uncle died in 1997, he told his son Daniel to continue pursuing the matter. I therefore felt compelled to write a letter on behalf of my family to Senator D’Amato, who is Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee investigating the relationship between the Swiss banks and the Holocaust, particularly since my mother, Elsa Graupe, is 85 years old, lives in New York and is one of his constituents. She and my father, Gerhard Graupe, the son of Paul Graupe, were refugees from Nazi Germany and immigrated to New York in 1938 and had two daughters, of which I am one. My grandfather Paul and his wife Dora had two other sons. Ernst Graupe, who died in England in 1967, childless, and Heinz Graupe, who died in 1997 and had one son, my cousin Daniel. My uncle Heinz had in his possession at the time of his death in 1997 the Familien Stammbuch, which is a German word, I think it’s a family diary, where written entries concerning important family matters were inscribed. It was in this book that we were able to get a lot of the facts concerning the life insurance policy. And there are other facts there concerning banks, but we can’t read them. I just have trouble reading them. I can’t read the German. These are really the facts. We discovered that on November 9, 1927, my grandfather, Paul Graupe, took out a life insurance policy with a company in Switzerland in the amount of 15,000 Swiss Francs. We believe that the company, located in Zurich, was Schweizerische, excuse my German here, Lebensversicherung und Renten Anstallt. The policy number, I have that too, was 3C523979. So we had a lot of basic information. Senator D’Amato’s office was very helpful, particularly Greg Rickman and Brian Hufger, in eliciting more information for us. A letter was written to the president of the Swiss insurance company on June 18, and we really got a pretty speedy response on July 1, with some very illuminating information. They were able to find, this is amazing, over 50 year old files which revealed extremely detailed facts and figures about my grandfather’s policy. There were dates of premiums, contract conversion numbers, loans, pre-payments, they were all registered. Period of coverage was 20 years, starting on November 21, 1927, payable at death, or at the latest in the event of survival, on May 1, 1947. I underlined this here and put it in big letters. Most importantly, the company stated that the policy was surrendered on October 31, 1940, and the total amount of the value of the policy, after deduction of a loan that my father had taken, and pre-payments, was paid on November 14, 1940. So I took that at face value when we first got this, I said oh, they must have paid it, without thinking. And then I thought, well despite the claims, and they have all these numerous transactions and numbers, it was just amazing, they claimed to have no records of to whom the policy was surrendered to. And surrender is kind of an interesting word, I guess it is an insurance word, but, Senator D’Amato wrote another letter on July 10 asking them that very important question. The response from the Renten Anstallt, Swiss Life, on July 15, stated, "Neither our branch office for Germany, nor our head office, disposes of any details or further copies of documents regarding the circumstances and the amount of the surrender of policy," and the numbers changed, because they had to convert the numbers, "and to whom this amount was paid. For this reason we very much regret that we were unable to answer your questions relating to the above-mentioned surrender." Another letter was sent from Senator D’Amato’s office on July 17, 1997, registering amazement at their inability to answer our question, and pointing to the most crucial aspect of the search. "It just strains credibility that while you seem to have found the most intricate details of Mr. Graupe’s policy, you are missing the most vital piece of information: the person to whom the policy was surrendered. Absence of such documentation raises more questions than it answers." A month later, I think it was August 11, I got a final response from the Renten Anstallt Swiss Life, which was angry and defensive, and actually echoes some of the things that Superintendent Levin and Commissioner Senn had mentioned, the excuses that were given by other companies. They reported that their branch office for Germany followed strict German procedure and fulfilled its legal duties and stated that they were discontinuing their correspondence. And I was intimidated. I was. In any event, those are the facts of the case. And I’m here for my sister, Florence Diller, my cousin, Daniel Graupe and I, we are the direct descendents, the grandchildren of Paul and Dora Graupe, inhabitants of Berlin and killed by the Nazis during the Holocaust, and they are seeking justice from the horrors of the past. And it is not only for them, it is for all of the people who are involved. My grandmother Dora, who died in the concentration camp in Theresienstadt in 1942, and my grandfather Paul, who was murdered shortly thereafter, having been transported, we think to Minsk, which we believe was the extermination site. They were innocent, decent people, having led productive lives in Germany, but were now caught in the maelstrom of history. After Hitler came to power in ’33, many of our family’s relatives were desperate, their lives in turmoil, and with no where to go for salvation. And ultimately they were slaughtered. When large companies squeeze profits out of human anguish, their policies must be re-evaluated, re-examined. I, for one, am grateful that is now being addressed, even if it has taken 53 years. Maintaining the status quo in this state of affairs just perpetuates the injustice initially done to my grandparents and all other victims. I thank you very much.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you, Ms. Graupe-Pillard, and Mr. Rosenberg. I’d like to again thank you for coming forward and sharing such personal stories with us.

Mr. Rosenberg. Could I have another minute of the committee’s time?

Senator D’Amato. Mr. Chairman, I’m going to have to ask your indulgence because I’m going to have to leave.

Superintendent Levin. Senator, we actually had down, if we can impose, we have a couple of questions for you. Let me just mention, also, before you came in, there was some discussion about the potential for destruction of documents that could be occurring as we sit here. I made a comment pledging that as of today, we would not be pleased with any evidence in the future of any destruction that occurred as of today, today serving notice. My colleague from the state of Washington, Commissioner Senn, also made the point that it is a crime to be destroying documents with regard to an ongoing investigation. So between Commissioner Senn’s comments about destruction which may have already occurred, and my comments about serving notice as of today, and the other commissioners agreed, I guess my question is, I don’t know if you want to offer your own comments with regard to [this], because we’ve seen this before on the bank side, serving notice today, here is a forum with regard to your thoughts on any destruction of documents.

Senator D’Amato. Well, Mr. Chairman, I’m not certain as to the status of the laws that would exist in the various European communities, in particular that we are interested in. They probably need to pass legislation, but I think that we could help immeasurably by seeing to it that either by way of your own actions individually, as state regulators, and/or if necessary, the empowerment by the state legislatures, it would seem to me that most of them could act rather quickly, yourselves much quicker, to indicate that these records in particular are of importance to you, and are of concern, and should be preserved, if you can do that. Secondly, it would seem to me that we should, by way of our own, raise this level, and I would bring this to Ambassador Eisenstadt. He hasn’t accepted, and President Clinton hasn’t set, the groundwork, but I would believe it’s going to happen. I believe that we would go forward, on a national level, to begin to work diplomatically, particularly with the Communist nations, to seek the passage of national laws on their part to assure that there will be no destruction. I tell you in the case of the Swiss banks, the Swiss government did do this, they did pass a law, which said that all of these documents are historical in nature, etc., as related to this era, and [documents] concerning themselves with those people who were victimized during the Holocaust had to be preserved. Now, the fact that there have been some incidents that have come to our attention where it would appear that law may have been violated, again, I think is a demonstration of the importance of that law. But, yes, I think it’s important, and I think you can set a great precedent by going forward on the state level and requesting of these insurance carriers that they even undertake this voluntarily.

Superintendent Levin. Can we also ask your assistance at the federal level to work with Ambassador Eisenstadt and the State Department and the Congress to communicate the same kind of message?

Senator D’Amato. I think that’s a thoughtful suggestion and we will undertake that. I look forward to working with the commissioners and having our staffs, Mr. Rickman is here, and I’m going to task him to stay here and to follow through with all of your staffs.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you very much. I think one or two of my colleagues had a quick question for you.

Commissioner Quackenbush. Senator D’Amato, I’ve been discussing this idea of a commission with Superintendent Levin rather extensively, and I think it has a lot of merit. How quickly do you think something like that could be set up, given your experience with the Volker Commission?

Senator D’Amato. As quickly as you act that would put tremendous pressure on the commercial interests abroad, the insurance companies abroad, to stop cleaving to, and leaning on to the kind of legal niceties that you saw demonstrated today. If they see that you are acting collectively, and I am very hopeful that you can and you will, because you understand the ramifications, you can’t help but [do that] when you hear the matters put forth by just two of those witnesses who have testified today, and by the way, this is not about money with these people. The Graupe-Pillard family, at this point in time, what do you think in terms of the heirs, they would be talking about? It’s simply about justice. It’s the indignity that they feel for their parents and their grandparents and having them taken advantage of. They do not come here looking to aggrandize themselves monetarily. It’s not what this is about. So, getting back to your point, and I apologize for digressing, I think it can be done within a matter of months. I believe, I think that the impetus, I can be quite candid, comes from here. We will push, and do our part, but if the commissioners, on a state basis, come together to do this, I think that the Administration will be ready to move forward and we saw all kinds of resistance, but when the financial institutions saw that we were serious, and there would be serious economic consequences to their being able to do business in the greatest capital formation system in the world, the United States, make no mistake about it, they are not going to enter into this because they have suddenly taken on a benevolent side, that they have suddenly found a righteousness and a virtue in seeking justice. They are going to do it to protect their financial interest and base. But ours is not to make converts, ours is to seek a course of action.

Commissioner Quackenbush. One thing that concerns me, I know there is a Swiss law enabling the Volker Commission, giving it legal status in Switzerland, but we are dealing with more than one country, and in fact several countries, some of them with brand new governments that obviously had nothing to do with the Holocaust, and we’re definitely going to need your assistance in setting up this type of an organization, to get the kind of recognition we need. The ability to stonewall and to obfuscate is tremendous here, given the overlapping jurisdictions that we can run into.

Senator D’Amato. I am certain, Commissioner, you have my total cooperation, out of my staff, that we can also enlist on a bipartisan basis broad support. This is not about politics, this is not about the Republicans, the Democrats, and I must say to you that when the World Jewish Congress came to me, Israel Singer, Elan Steinberg who testified, Edgar Bronfmann, they went to the Administration, and President Clinton, and let me tell you, if President Clinton says he can work with Al D’Amato, that’s something. We weren’t the best of friends at that period of time, so to shed a little light on this, he was tremendous. He responded, he appointed Ambassador Eisenstadt as the person to coordinate the Administration’s actions, and that is why I think we have a track already that has been plowed that we can follow along. I think having Ambassador Eisenstadt there, think about the Communist countries, in particular, who took over, nationalized these other companies, and are their successors-in-interest. There’s something that they want now, a number of them, Poland, Hungary, are looking to come into NATO, looking to work with us. I am not suggesting saying "you must"…<end of tape>…two members of the Congress have introduced legislation. I think that you have to be very careful about saying unless Poland or Hungary were to cooperate with us they would be denied membership. I think that’s using an atomic bomb, you can wipe out everything, you can lose goodwill, etcetera, and then you’ll lose the goodwill of the Congress, because some would think that’s overreaching. However, it does suggest, and I say this for my colleagues, Senator Doracelli and Senator Specter, who I believe are embarking on a very useful course, that there is a keen amount of interest in Congress that says you can’t do business as usual. And we will be able to get the cooperation of these countries if we maintain that attitude.

Director Angoff. Senator D’Amato, I’d like to thank you both for myself and on behalf of my family for the leadership you’ve shown, both on this issue and on the bank issue. Second, Senator D’Amato and Mr. Rosenberg, you’ve both discussed targeting Jews, and let me just understand what you said. Do you mean that at least one company actually went around trying to sell to Jews and collecting premiums knowing, or contemplating that those Jews would be dead soon and that they would never have to pay off on the policy.

Senator D’Amato. I think that Mr. Rosenberg, as an actual witness to this, would be much better [to answer the question].

Mr. Rosenberg. That’s my impression, my understanding. These two people who came to see us in 1942, at a time when we had no future, specifically said that they had gotten our names from other Jewish families in the Brussels area. They sold us a policy because it would help my father protect his children, that was me and my sister, and when they left us, they asked if we could recommend other Jewish families whom we knew to whom they could sell the same policy. This was a golden opportunity. It’s a little bit as if you’ve been told you have cancer and two months to live and someone comes to you and says, hey, I’m going to sell you a life insurance policy.

Director Angoff. And you remember this yourself? This is your own memory? Who is the company?

Mr. Rosenberg. Oh, yes. This is my own memory. Winterthur.

Director Angoff. Do you know if there were other companies engaged in this?

Mr. Rosenberg. No. I only have knowledge of these two people. And for a while, I wasn’t sure, first of all, if my father had taken a policy, it’s only after he died that I realized he had taken a policy, because there were some papers. After the War, it left a bitter taste in my life, because I remembered what Winterthur did. When I drove to Switzerland there’s a city there called Winterthur. It always gives me a funny feeling.

Commissioner Senn. Senator D’Amato, we understand that you have to leave, so I do have some additional questions for Mr. Rosenberg, but I just wanted to say thank you very much for coming today and just one very quick question. During the banking process, were you able to get cooperation from the European banking regulators? I assume there are such.

Senator D’Amato. Let me say this to you. We really did not get the kind of opposition from the other governments that we did [get] from the Swiss Bankers’ Association. They were much more cooperative, and I honestly believe, notwithstanding this absolutely insensitive letter, dictated by someone, who, I guess he’s going to stand on this great policy, I can’t believe, I could see a little closed corporation saying, yeah, let’s do this, there’s a certain mentality within some, to just deny, deny, deny, we’re going to keep the money, we got the money, we don’t care, we’re not going to open ourselves up. But whereas others, Generali and others have been more forthcoming, and I think they will be forthcoming. I think we can get greater cooperation than is anticipated. The European Community, for the most part, was very cooperative. We did not have nearly the kind of blind opposition that was faced, as a matter of fact the World Jewish Congress was able to make some tremendous settlements and did not have to take this. We’re not saying that all is well, but there was much more openness than there was as it relates to the Swiss Bankers’ Association, which was ridiculous.

Commissioner Senn. Thank you.

Superintendent Levin. Senator, thank you very much.

Senator D’Amato. Thank you all, and again, I believe that your group has got a tremendous opportunity and the ability to help the cause of justice. Causes that have been neglected for 50 plus years and really make a difference. Thank you again.

Superintendent Levin. Thank you.

Commissioner Senn. If you want to wait, Ms. Graupe-Pillard, and have a seat in case anybody else has any questions, thank you for your compelling testimony with regard to the records and actually, do you have your documents with you today? <yes> Okay, so maybe we can take a look at them later, we’re very interested in doing that. Just a follow up question for Mr. Rosenberg,