Director Mark Boozell As you may know, several Holocaust survivors and their heirs have recently filed a class-action lawsuit against some European insurance companies seeking as much as one billion dollars for unpaid life insurance and property casualty policies. The lawsuit alleges that the defendants encouraged European citizens who feared persecution to deposit their assets and to purchase insurance to safeguard their families' futures. The suit alleges that the face value or proceeds of the insurance policies were wrongfully withheld, concealed and converted to cash-values and in some instances, the policy proceeds were used to finance and extend the war. The insurers are accused of converting policyholder assets into the defendants' own property and denying benefits to the plaintiffs, while knowing that there was no reasonable basis to oppose the claims. Official Answers to the litigation have not yet been filed, but the defendant companies have issued statements indicating that they would try to help the families of Holocaust survivors with legitimate claims. Now, this hearing is intended as an informational hearing. I have asked Commissioner Deborah Senn of Washington State to chair a working group that will report directly to the E Committee and their task will be to determine what role, if any, the NAIC should have in pursuing this issue. They will be expected to make a recommendation to the E Committee no later than the December 1997 National Meeting. Before we get started with the agenda I would like to go through it to let you know who will be speaking with us today and the order in which they will be speaking. We'll hear from the NAIC President, Josephine Musser and from the Insurance Commissioner from Washington State, Deborah Senn. We'll be hearing from Dr. Israel Miller, President of the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany. The Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany is an umbrella organization of 23 national and international Jewish organizations, and it was formed in 1951 to help Jewish Holocaust survivors retrieve assets from Nazi-controlled entities. [We'll also hear from] Saul Kagan, Executive Vice President of the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany; Edward Fagan, Attorney for the Plaintiffs in the pending class-action lawsuit brought by Holocaust survivors and their heirs against several European insurers; Marta Drucker Cornell, who is a Holocaust survivor. Ms. Cornell, who is now a U.S. resident, was born in Czechoslovakia and was the only member of her family to survive the Holocaust. The insurance companies who had covered her father's life refused to honor the policies after the War. [We'll also hear from] Margret Zentner, Holocaust survivor's heir. Ms. Zentner, who is now a U.S. resident, was a native of Germany whose father invested in a dowry-type of annuity payable at the age of 21, and then after the War the insurance carrier who had sold the policy had refused to honor it. [Additionally, we'll hear from] Tibor Vidal, a Holocaust survivor's heir. Mr. Vidal's father sold insurance in Hungary prior to the Holocaust and purchased life insurance coverage for himself, paying premiums until he and his family were deported to Nazi concentration camps. Mr. Vidal's father and the rest of the family died as a result of the Holocaust and the insurance companies that had written the life insurance policies have so far refused to pay the benefits. [We'll hear from] Tibor Breuer, a Holocaust survivor's heir. Mr. Breuer, a U.S. resident, is the son of a Hungarian couple who lost their entire families in the Holocaust. When Mr. Breuers mother returned to Hungary after the War, she contacted her fathers life insurance carrier but the insurer declined to honor the policy. The family fled from Hungary when the Soviets crushed the 1956 revolution and they have since settled in Canada and Washington State. [Additionally, well hear from] Rudy Rosenberg, a Holocaust survivors heir. Mr. Rosenberg, who is a U.S. resident, is the son of a Brussels family, and in 1942 his family purchased a life insurance policy that his insurer has refused to honor. [Finally, well hear from] Richard A. Williamson, attorney for Allianz, a defendant in the pending class-action lawsuit. Zurich Life has submitted a letter and requested it be read aloud at the meeting and it will be, in its proper order. Generali declined to participate because the judge in the pending lawsuit admonished the attorneys to keep a low profile, and just this morning, Winterthur has declined to participate in this hearing. So first Id liked to ask Commissioner Musser to make some remarks.

Commissioner Josephine Musser Good afternoon, and thank you, Chairman Boozell and members of the committee. I appreciate very much your efforts to organize this special presentation here today. Providing consumer safeguards is the primary mission of state insurance departments and the member association, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. All consumers deserve to have confidence in the products they purchase, confidence that benefits promised will be benefits delivered. This is the essence of the insurance contract and of the market activity. The issue that's before us today, that of insurance claims due to Holocaust victims and their families, is one that requires our attention. Allegations have been made that thousands of insurance contracts have been issued and not fulfilled. It is our duty as insurance commissioners, and our responsibility as chief insurance regulators in our states, to shed light on the matter, and to fully understand all aspects and the scope and nature of this issue. While oftentimes industry and consumer groups criticize the regulators for not paying enough attention to their various issues, as is often said in the negotiation process, if everyone is just a little unhappy, we must be doing our job right. Today we must determine what role, if any, is appropriate for the state insurance commissioners and their departments and what is the role of the NAIC in this very important and very trying consumer issue. Today we can begin to fully define the nature and scope of the insurance claims. We need to learn more about the possible claimants in our states and whether there is potentially relevant information available to us in the country. To do so, I have requested that this committee, as Chairman Boozell related to you, that the committee appoint a working group to examine the issues of insurance claims due to Holocaust victims and heirs. The working group is charged with identifying the key areas of concern and making a recommendation as to the role of the organization and the state insurance departments in pursuing a resolution of the issue and delineating the role. I wish to commend my colleague, Commissioner Senn of Washington State, for her efforts in preparing for this presentation today. Deborah believes, as I do, that we should take every step possible to educate ourselves and then pursue the most appropriate course of action. So too, I would like to thank Commissioner Angoff of Missouri, who initially brought this issue to my attention after a meeting with his colleagues, and encouraged us to take a close look at the issue and examine and provide each other with information. Likewise Superintendent Levin of New York is planning to travel this month to Europe to meet with insurance companies and gain further information. It is of course, in New York, that the class-action lawsuit is now pending on behalf of over 10,000 Holocaust victims and their heirs. I'm sure we will hear more about the lawsuit today in the details in today's presentation. Please allow me to thank our visitors here today who have come to share their own experiences and to help us in gaining a better understanding of the many facets of this issue. I believe this is indeed a crucial matter and an issue that personally touches the lives of many of the consumers who live in our states. The NAIC has always served as a forum for coordination and cooperation among the states, and I think our organization is fully appropriate in its role in continuing to do so here today. Our first responsibility is to bring all aspects of the issue to the light of day. I look forward to hearing today's presentation and I want to thank you again.

Director Boozell Thank you. Commissioner Senn.

Commissioner Deborah Senn Thank you, Commissioner Boozell. I just want to take a couple of minutes to tell you the history of how we got here today. Last May, I saw an article, we saw an article, in the trade press about the lawsuit of survivors, and of course many are amazed that after 50 years these claims are still pending, still need to be settled. Then Commissioner Angoff, Commissioner Levin and myself met in New York with the attorneys to hear about the case with the Material Claims Conference and then as Commissioner Musser mentions, Commissioner Angoff spoke to her, and we put together this idea for a working group and Commissioner Boozell was very gracious in terms of putting it in the E Committee. Just to let people know after this meeting, of course, we will put the working group together, we will work on the charge that Commissioner Boozell has given us. For the commissioners who are here, we already have some information for you. One thing that we did in the State of Washington, we sent out a letter to all our survivors, asking them if they had claims, and we will supply a copy of that letter to you, so that you can send it out to your survivors. We then sent out a questionnaire to the survivors for those, for example, who didn't have policies. It's remarkable that a number of survivors, and you're going to hear about this today, actually have policies. They were able to escape with a piece of paper hidden, and so some do have policies, some of course do not, so, as you'll hear today, there's just a tremendous amount of information and variation in terms of how the claims are organized. As Commissioner Boozell said, this deals with life insurance, with property and casualty. I don't know if people are aware that in 1938 during Kristallnacht, when Jewish businesses were destroyed, a lot of businesses had P & C policies and they were not honored at that time. And also dowry insurance, and it took a few minutes, I should say a few days, in our department, to figure out what dowry insurance was. Dowry insurance is an annuity that was bought and matured at age 21 and was used to pay for the wedding. Actually someone said that's a good idea today. So those are the types of policies we have seen. And as we work with the working group, we will get information to all the commissioners and to the different departments. Of course, the purpose of insurance commissioners is to protect consumers. And that is what this hearing is about today and what this working group is about. In the State of Washington, and I'm sure across the country, many of the survivors are elderly; it's been over 50 years, so we should waste no time in trying to get these claims resolved. And finally, let me just say that of course, Holocaust is about a loss of life that is just incomprehensible, but also in recent years with the issue of Swiss gold, we've also heard about the loss of the fabric of those lives, and those families and the work that was done. And so even 50 years later it is important for all of us, and for all of us commissioners to participate in the process of redress. Because this issue is, of course, about consumers and claims, but it is also about justice, and so that's why it's so important. Thank you. Now I guess I will go ahead and introduce our first panel members, Dr. Israel Miller and Saul Kagan. You want to come up and have a seat, Dr. Miller and Mr. Kagan, and I have the honor of making the introduction. Dr. Israel Miller is President of the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, and they have supplied a brochure for the commissioners [Attachment One]. Dr. Miller was elected in 1982 to head the Claims Conference, which includes 23 major national and international Jewish organizations. It serves as the official body representing the interests of all Jewish victims of Nazi persecution to the Federal Republic of Germany. He also serves as President of the Committee for Jewish Claims on Austria. Dr. Miller, who served as a Chaplain with the Army Air Corps during World War II, was selected by the National Citizens Committee for Community Relations by President Johnson. He has served as a special U.S. Envoy several times and has met with many major political figures, including the last five U.S. Presidents. He is the past chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. He is chair of the Strategy Committee of the Israel Task Force and is an executive committee member of the National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council. He is a board member of the Jerusalem Foundation and in 1975, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin conferred on Dr. Miller a special personal award for leadership and service to Israel and to the Jewish people. Rabbi Miller, and maybe I'll introduce Mr. Kagan as well, Saul Kagan is the executive vice president of the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany. Mr. Kagan currently also serves as administrator of the Claims Conference Hardship and Article II Funds, which are responsible for distribution of approximately one billion dollars to special groups of Jewish Nazi victims who left Eastern Europe in recent years, as well as to Holocaust survivors who received no or only minimal compensation under the German Federal Indemnification Law, and to institutions sheltering aged senior Holocaust survivors. Mr. Kagan also is executive vice president for the Committee for Jewish Claims on Austria; he is a member of the Executive Committee of the World Jewish Restitution Organization and after World War II, he served as chief of the financial intelligence of the U.S. Military Government in Germany. Rabbi Miller, Mr. Kagan, welcome. Thank you very much.

Rabbi Miller Thank you Commissioner. I want to thank the [NAIC] president, Commissioner Musser, and the chair, Commissioner Boozell and all of the commissioners who are here for the NAIC particularly for your interest and your concern in setting up this committee. It heartens us in our work and we hope that we will be able to establish a working relationship which will lead to positive results in an area both of your concern and of ours. I speak not merely for the Claims Conference, which is an international organization, as you heard, of 23 national and international groups, that deals with claims against Germany and against Austria. The Germans to this date are still spending some one billion dollars annually in pensions for survivors and we are still in negotiation with them in order to liberalize the criteria under which the survivors who are now aged and infirm and many in great need and you've been reading particularly about those who were twice-cursed who are in the former Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe, and we represent them as well. But I speak also on behalf of the World Jewish Restitution Organization, whose chairman of the executive should have been with us today but regretfully is not well, Dr. Israel Singer. He asked that I represent him as well. We, the Conference on Material Claims Against Germany, is the parent organization of the WJRO. The WJRO deals with countries other than the countries that we deal with, namely Germany and Austria. They are very much involved now with the problem of the Swiss banks, for example, and the Swiss gold, and the humanitarian fund which has been established in Switzerland, and are dealing as well with gold in Sweden and in Norway and in Portugal. The things that you have been reading about in the newspapers as well as the restitution of property, which we are involved with in the former East Germany, the former German Democratic Republic. The World Jewish Restitution Organization is headed by Edgar Bronfmann. I would like to say to you that in terms of our problem, the insurance problem, that we are only at the beginning of a process which deals not only with monitoring claims and making certain they will be paid, but which is a matter of justice, and of morality, and I'd like to impress on the commissioners, when you ask, well what are we doing here, we are here in the United States. Our country has always stood for that throughout the world, the premium country throughout the world in standing for honesty and justice and morality and we feel that this is what is at stake here as well. We have no knowledge of the dimensions of the claims, but we are certain that they are considerable, because they are not merely claims of our citizens here in the United States with which you are concerned, or with whom you are concerned, but with particularly the people who live in countries where the poverty is so much more stark than it is here. We have met with the officials of Allianz and tried to impress upon them, not merely the seriousness of this issue, but the need to deal with it expeditiously, while there are still survivors alive, who had these policies, or while their heirs are still alive. What we have suggested to them is the setting up of a joint investigation committee, ala the Volker Commission, which would be made up of members of our conference, and of the World Jewish Restitution Organization, and of the insurance companies, and together we would form a commission which would then engage outstanding firms, accountancy firms, as has been done in Switzerland, international firms, which would study the records and the archives. There are such records that are available. We have met with Allianz twice and we have told them, despite the fact that they have set up their own committee, that is not a satisfactory response. I must say to you that just as there are committees, there are insurance companies rather, that refused to come today. We also have had that experience. Allianz has been quite responsive, but not responsive to that demand of ours. We are concerned about the survivors and their beneficiaries, but we are also concerned about heirless policies. There are many families that were completely wiped out. And that's why we feel the search of the records is so important, so vital. The claims conference which Mr. Kagan and I represent, has been declared by German law, which was passed by the Bundestag, as a successor organization for heirless property in the former East Germany, in the former German Democratic Republic.@ We go through the process of restitution and restitution agencies and the various lenders, which made up East Germany. We then take these properties that are restituted to us that have no heirs, and they are sold, or we get compensation if the building no longer exists, and we have used that money, which you will note in the pamphlet which has been given to each of the commissioners, to allocate funds for social services, for documentation, and research and education about the Holocaust. Eighty percent of our money, and it is considerable, I must tell you that up to date, or by the end of 1997, we will have distributed 183 million deutsche mark, and despite the fact that the dollar against the deutsche mark is not that well, our currency has gone not so high that the deutsche mark is not worth as much as it used to be, it is still approximately 120 million dollars, and it is remarkable. What can I say to you if I were to tell you that last year, we gave out 900,000 hot meals in the former Soviet Union, 300,000 food packages, that we have added more than 3,000 beds for the geriatric institutions in Israel because of the great influx of population from the former Soviet Union, they were just inundated and their geriatric institutions could not take care of them. Not everyone who came off of the plane from the former Soviet Union was a scientist, or even a musician. There were a lot of old people, and many of them had to live through the Holocaust, and so we are interested in heirless policies as well. Many of the international companies have serious exposure in the United States, both judicially, and you will hear about the judicial process, but morally as well. They have associate firms here in the United States, and that should be a matter of your concern, and therefore we consider it proper that it become your concern as well. We would welcome the opportunity to maintain contact with you on a regular basis and to exchange information. There are many American citizens who are involved, many from whom you will hear today. We hope that the insurance companies will be seeking to act honorably and morally and will discharge their obligations to the victims of the Holocaust or to their heirs. You can help in this process and I hope that we will be able, together, to urge them to act quickly, properly, set up the commission of which I spoke and begin to respond to those who I don't know how, but miraculously still are here with us and have their policies and have not been justly compensated. Mr. Kagan may want to add something, but we would like to respond to your questions in whatever time we have left.

Commissioner Charles Quackenbush I have a question. It's clear there has been an injustice here, and the question that I would have for you, it's been 52 years since the end of World War II. We had War Crimes trials, and lots of these issues were handled at the end of the War and during the early 50s. Why wasn't this issue brought up at that time and what occurred back then that we have to have this meeting now instead of in 1946 or 1947?

Mr. Kagan The issue did come up in many of the cases. The individuals themselves, you have to think of the immediate post-War period, where the survivors, the vast majority of the survivors were simply trying to regain their strength to begin to build some kind of a new existence and life for themselves and many did not at that point, and at that stage, did not focus as much on issues of this nature. In addition to that, there was some very inadequate opportunities for people to file some claims, within Germany, certainly not in other countries, because with the exception of Germany there are practically no countries that have had property restitution laws after the War. This is unfortunately a failing of most of the countries with whom the World Jewish Restitution Organization is now trying to come to terms. So it's an issue which has become more acute, particularly, as I say, particularly, as the survivors themselves are reaching advanced age and the issue of claims for them and things they would have been entitled to comes much more to the fore. So it's an issue which now requires very immediate and prompt attention as Dr. Miller already indicated. The average age of the survivors is middle 70s and many are older than that, and therefore the timing and the urgency is self-evident.

Commissioner Quackenbush Well I won't dispute that there are I'm sure, cases here that have not been paid off, and there's plenty of justice that we can help mete out, and I'm sure that we can help you in that. It just seems to me that in this long time span since the end of the War, that this issue should have been addressed by possibly this organization or the U.S. Government, or somebody. I'm just shocked that it's taken this long to finally bring this to a head.

Mr. Kagan As I said to you before, within the German compensation legislation, there were very inadequate opportunities which some individuals attempted to pursue, but basically, no proper and adequate machinery was established and in existence in order to deal with it at an earlier date.

Rabbi Miller I'll just say to you that I think we should've done this earlier, we should've done this sooner. We too were concentrating for individuals, etc. The companies were not in the position at that time, immediately after the War, and nor were the people in that condition, as Mr. Kagan said, to ask for it. We are beginning to look at, I don't know, things have opened up, we are beginning to look at art, for example, which was confiscated. There's a new committee that was just formed in the WJRO. Mr. Kagan and I participated in the auction in Marabek in Austria where that art had been stashed away and all of these have come to the fore, and I think all of the publicity about the Swiss banks, has aroused within us, too, the Jewish community. I can just say that part of the blame is ours for not having done more sooner.

Commissioner Quackenbush It was more a comment than a question, I don't know that you'd really have the answer for that. It just seemed shocking to me that we let this go that long. I don't mean to belabor the point.

Commissioner Senn Let me just make one comment, Commissioner Quackenbush, your point is well taken, but I think part of the impetus on the Swiss gold issue had to do with the opening of the archives that had been closed for many many years in this country, and so, and also, in the Eastern Block countries since the breakup of the Soviet Union perestroika there's archives opening there, and so I think a little bit of this is that there's been a loosening of information which we never had up until recently, but I understand your question.

Director Boozell Commissioner Musser has a question and then I think what we would like to do is defer any remaining questions to the end. I want to make sure that we have, since we're constrained a little by time in the room, we'll get the other testifiers up and then we may ask you to come back for some questions if that's appropriate.

Commissioner Musser Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have a rather pragmatic question, and first I want to again thank you for your comments here today. I'm interested in gaining as much information as possible about this issue, having not been exposed to it myself. I would like to know what do you advise us, as commissioners, in terms of understanding location, quantification, identification and reaching out to people who may have these issues. You've mentioned publicity has stirred up some coming forth, but it's important for each of us to understand the scope, that you said, that you did not have knowledge of the dimension, really, of some aspects of this problem. What should we do to begin the practical process?

Rabbi Miller Well I think that you've already begun. I think this meeting has begun what I hope will be a process. The insurance companies, many of whom are international in scope, have holdings here in the United States, are very much interested in the faith and trust of people. They need you as much as they need their consumers. You are here to protect the consumers and you are here to make certain that what the insurance companies do is proper. And we consider that this is one of the proper things that they ought to be doing, so shining the light of publicity upon them is most important. But also, asking them to recognize the seriousness of this problem, and the fact that you are discussing it makes it serious, the fact that Commissioner Senn will be looking into it makes it serious, and that they will establish the kind of commission that would be headed by someone such as Mr. Volker, who headed the Federal Reserve Bank here, who has expressed an interest, by the way, in this area as well, and who would bring to light what the dimensions of this problem really are. We feel that the people who have come forward, who have responded to Commissioner Senn's letter, are only the tip of the iceberg. Not every commissioner has done this in every state. If this could be done in every state it would be helpful, and I think too, this will show other countries, because there are survivors in many countries, how the United States takes the lead in a moral issue of this nature, and so there is much that we feel you can do, and much that I feel you have already started to do.

Commissioner Musser Thank you very much.

Director Boozell Thank you Rabbi Miller and Mr. Kagan. If we can have our next six witnesses, I understand that you want to come up all together, is that still the case? Rabbi Miller, Mr. Kagan, if you'd like to sit on the end seats, then I think we have enough chairs for Mr. Fagan, Ms. Cornell, Ms. Zentner, Mr. Vidal and Mr. Breuer and Mr. Rosenberg.

Mr. Fagan May I impose on the commissioners to allow my colleagues also to be seated at the table?

Director Boozell Yes. If you can find the room, you can. Thank you all for coming. If you could please identify yourself in the order that you choose, identify yourself, tell us where your from, tell us a little about yourself and give us your testimony, we'd appreciate that.

Mr. Fagan Thank you, Commissioner. First of all my name is Edward Fagan. I'm one of the lawyers that's handling the class-action lawsuit, and rather than my taking even the three minutes allotted, what I thought we would do was just give you a one-minute overview and allow the people to testify and then if you all have questions of my colleagues and I, we can answer them. Commissioner, you asked a very good question earlier and the answer to your question is very simple. There were close to a million documents that only became de-classified through the efforts of Senator D'Amato in the last year and his staff. These are things that Commissioner Senn mentioned; it's only now that all of this is coming to light. You are all familiar with the concept of "vanishing premiums." The allegations and the facts that you are going to hear from all of these people expand that concept to vanishing cash values, vanishing death benefits, vanishing policy records and vanishing fiduciary responsibilities. The testimony, what we'd like to do is to start with Mr. Rosenberg, Rudy Rosenberg, who's from New York and who has a claim against Winterthur which is a Swiss company. Mr. Rosenberg?

Rudy Rosenberg Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, we thank you for allowing us to come here today and speak to you. My name is Rudy Rosenberg. I live in New York, and I'm 67 years old. I come here today to tell you, as commissioners, hoping that you may tell the story to the rest of the world, about how the Swiss insurance company Winterthur, targeted Jews in Belgium, and probably somewhere else also, to sell Jews insurance policies while knowing full well that we were going to be exterminated. In 1942, my family lived in Brussels, Belgium. My father's name was Hilel Rosenberg and my mother's name is Frieda Friedemann-Rosenberg. There were two children, my sister Ruth and me. Because of my father's business, we were known by many other members of the Jewish community of Belgium, and we knew many others who were equally Jewish, even though the community was not then as large as it was earlier. On or about March or April of 1942, I was 12 years old at the time, I remember that one day two men came to our home to sell us life insurance. The men told us they were from Winterthur, the Swiss insurance company. My mother, my father and I were at home and we spoke with these two men. They told us that they got to us because other Jews in Brussels gave them our name, and then they told us that the reason they came to see us was to sell us life insurance. These agents told my father that Winterthur had a special deal, a special insurance that they could give us, and what made it very attractive was that you only had to pay 50% of the policy on signing and that the balance of the premium would have to be paid only on the anniversary of the policy a year later. I imagine they must have known at the time that a year later nobody would be around to pay the second half, thus invalidating the policy. Before they left us, they asked us if we could give them the names of other Jewish families living in the area and to whom they could sell more policies. They made it sound to us as though this was really a very special deal, designed only for Jews who nobody else would insure anyway because our life was not worth much in 1942. At the time I thought it was very nice of them that someone was willing to insure us, even though we were doomed at the time. Of course, those were the thoughts of a 12 year-old boy who didn't necessarily realize how callous they were. After the war, I came to realize the callousness and the greed of these men and the Winterthur company. Imagine, they were inducing us to buy policies, making all kinds of representations, and all the while they knew that we were all going to be killed. They would just then keep our money. I'm sure they must have sold hundreds, if not thousands, of policies, in Belgium to Jewish families. In the War and in the following years, the Germans killed 45 of my father's relatives and 6 members of my mother's family. Only 7 members survived. We survived by hiding in a basement for 27 months. In 1949 I came to America and I served 3 years in the U.S. Army during the Korean War. I confirm the existence of the Winterthur policy that those agents had sold us in March or April of 1942. To my knowledge we never, nor did our mother, ever got paid from Winterthur for the policies or the cash policies of the insurance that we took. My presence here is really to help you to help us find out what happened to those policies, how many other policies have not been paid. We need your help to find out and understand how many policies were made and why Winterthur was targeting Jews and other future Holocaust victims in Belgium and in other places, so that they could prey on our desperation and sell their hollow policies. Please help us get to the bottom of this and find out the truth. I thank you for your attention.

Mr. Fagan The next claimant is Margret Zentner, who has a claim against Allianz.

Margret Zentner Good afternoon. My name is Margret Zentner, and I was born in a small town Schliichtern, near Frankfurt in Germany. My parents owned a tobacco wholesale and retail business and our home had the luxuries of the 1920s like central heating and a refrigerator. I attended a school that was largely supported and built by my family and wanting to provide for my financial security, my parents, Alexander and Paula Krohn, purchased an annuity policy with Allianz. The policy was for a dowry to be paid either on my 21st birthday or on my wedding day. In 1933, when I was 10 years old, the Nazis arrested (end of tape) two months later my parents were released on the condition that we leave Germany immediately. We fled to Czechoslovakia but 5 years later the Nazis invaded again. On October 24, 1941, I was married in Prague. One month after my wedding my husband, Fritz Zentner, was sent to concentration camp at Terezin, also known as Theresienstadt. Ten days later I was also deported to Terezin. My parents were deported there a year later. The Nazis forced us to turn over all our possessions, including our insurance policies. Eventually I was sent to Auschwitz where Dr. Josef Mengele inspected us regularly to separate the strong from the weak who were sent to the gas chamber. I was shipped to Gross-Rosen in Salzwedel, one day two civilians came to select workers, strong girls for the airplane factory. I was chosen. Before that I had worked in my bare feet in the snow digging ditches for the Germany army. The scars on my hands and feet serve as constant reminders of my torture. Yet I was fortunate. I survived, and so did my husband and my parents. All other relatives were exterminated. After the War, I went back to Schliichtern. It was there in 1947 and 48 that I first tried to get Allianz to pay me the proceeds of my insurance policy. I even remembered the name of the agent who sold the policy to my family. But Allianz refused to pay me. The company told me it had already paid the proceeds of my policy to the Nazis, the SS that is to be exact. Outraged, I wrote to Allianz to object. I never received a response and never heard another word from the company. It appeared I had no recourse. Some may view Allianz's recent efforts as a step in the right direction, but survivors like me do not need Allianz's public relations campaign. What we need, and quickly, is full public disclosure of any files Allianz has related to our claims, and payment of these claims. Allianz took what my parents had provided for me and gave it to the Nazis, and for more than 50 years Allianz and other insurers have failed to right their wrongs. But for me, it is the memory of millions who suffered that is behind this quest for justice and truth. During the last month, I went to Germany to try to stop Allianz from getting access to Holocaust victims' restitution files, which are privileged and very confidential. Allianz actually got information out of my file without providing a power of attorney when my lawyers couldn't get access to these files without a power of attorney. When we got the files, we saw that as far back as 1957, Allianz lied about my policy. In 1957, Allianz told the German government that I canceled the policy in March 1942. I could not have canceled the policy in March 1942, I was an inmate in Theresienstadt concentration camp, starting in December 1941. All we want is to get what is ours. All I want Allianz to do is to open its records to me and all other Holocaust victims like me, who claim they had policies. Thank you for your help and interest in our plight. Now I would just ask, in response to your question, how could we have done anything about it sooner? Here was one little working person, being turned down by, I should say rude letters, of the Allianz. How could I have done anything against an almighty company like Allianz? Who would've fought my case? I had no one to turn to, and this happened to many others who tried to get their money after the War. I'm asking you, how could I have accomplished that?

Commissioner Quackenbush Just to rephrase the question I had asked why we didn't do anything sooner, why this organization and why the governments didn't. I'm on your side.

Ms. Zentner Thank you very much.

Mr. Fagan The next claimant is Tibor Vidal. Mr. Vidal is a claimant against Reunione Adriatica Di Sicurth, which is owned substantially by Allianz.

Tibor Vidal Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I thank you very much for the opportunity to present my case. My name is Tibor Vidal. I am 77 years and live in Englewood New Jersey. I was born in Czechoslovakia. My father was an insurance sales agent and worked for the Reunione Adriatica Di Sicurth Trieste, an Italian company. I served in the Hungarian Army in 1940. After 6 months later, they transferred us as Jewish soldiers to the Hungarian labor camp. Shortly thereafter, my father insurance license was taken from him by the Hungarian government. Prior to this time, my father purchased an insurance policy, as is normal with any agent, for his family, first for the children, then for his wife, to provide something for the future. Shortly after that, my father was taken to the concentration camp Mauthausen, where they put him in the underground mines. It's known that nobody came out alive from that particular spot. My mother and my three sisters were taken to Auschwitz. My mother was gassed in Auschwitz, my sisters were liberated from the camp. I escaped from the labor camp. After I escaped I survived by working under an assumed name and gentile identification documents. After I passed myself off as a gentile and I worked in different factories, the Gestapo entered a private party, I was attempted and ordered all the men to drop their pants in order to see which men were circumcised. It was a mixed party. Of course I was cut. I was then transferred to Theresienstadt which was a concentration camp. In all, 200 members of my family were killed during the Holocaust, 200 family members from both sides of my parents: children, grandchildren. And six only left alive came back from the Holocaust. In the 1950s I returned to Italy and personally went to the Reunione Adriatica home office. I have all the visas here that showed I went to Italy in the 1950s and that I went to visit the company, because I remember that my father worked approximately 20 years for the Adriatica. I asked them, I wasn't thinking about insurance policies actually at the time, I thought, maybe something, some recognition. They met me in the lobby at the home office in Trieste. They didn't even invite me into their offices. They said we cannot do anything. It's not our company, the government took over, later on the communists took over, different excuses, and I, as a young man at that time I believed everything. I just said goodbye and I left. That was their answer and that was final. Till now, I heard somehow on the TV that Mr. Fagan does something on behalf of these people, so I said maybe, let's hope. Thank you for listening to me.

Mr. Fagan The next claimant is Mr. Breuer.

Tibor Breuer My name is Tibor Breuer. I am 46 years old. I am a building contractor in Olympia, Washington. I want to thank the Washington State Insurance Commissioner and the NAIC for making it possible for me to be here today. I'm grateful for the opportunity to share my mother's story with you. My mother Elza Breuer is a survivor of the Holocaust. Following is a little background on my mother. She was born Elza Krausz in 1927. Her father, Jeno Krausz, purchased an insurance policy from the Triesti Generale insurance company in Trieste, Italy, soon after she was born. He borrowed $57 dollars of that policy two or three years later to open a soda factory in her home town of Pápa, Hungary. He already ran a bakery and he wanted to deliver soda water along with his bread. I have documentation here which verifies his life insurance policy and showed the $57 dollar loan that he took out and the terms of the repayment. All these transactions were in U.S. dollars. Jeno Krausz and other able-bodied Jewish men of Pápa were rounded up one night in early 1944 and sent to forced labor camps nearby. The men were later sent to the Ukraine. My mother never saw her father again. At this point I'd like to read an excerpt from an interview my older son Avi did four years ago, and he wrote, this was published in Young Voices magazine and is entitled "My Grandmother's Story."

We were told to move to a ghetto. The ghetto was not the place of opportunities we were told it was. We had to struggle to survive. Word came to our ears that a farmer nearby needed field workers. I was one of the people picked to go. I returned from the fields to find that my mother and 16 other women had been taken away. Weeks later my 10 year-old brother, my 15 year-old sister and I were taken away also. We were moved first to a large empty factory and from there to a sort of holding pen. Amazingly, among the milling confused people we found our mother. It was a hot morning in May when we began to be loaded into the cattle trains. We were separated from our mother again. The train ride was miserable. It was packed and hot and so everybody was sweating all over each other and we were hungry and thirsty. When we arrived at our destination the soldiers separated males from females. My sister and I were made to let go of our brother and stand with the rest of the scared, confused girls and women.

This train ride brought my mother to Auschwitz. Most of my mom's immediate and extended family perished there. Just a couple of days ago when I went to visit my mother on my way here, she gave me a list of her family that she put together two years ago, my older brother got her to do this, and between her uncles and aunts and their children alone B just on my mother's side B I have a list of 56 people. My mother and her younger sister were not exterminated in Auschwitz, but were used in the labor force there. Then in September of that year, my mother was separated from her sister and was sent to Ravensbrück to work in the camps for a company called Siemens. She put together some sort of radio parts there. She found out later that her 16 year-old sister died of typhus in Auschwitz. My mom was liberated by the Allies in "45. She had to walk back almost all the way to Hungary with a group of women as the rail lines had been destroyed and there was no other way for her to get home. At night they would sneak into farmer's fields to steal food to survive the trip. I'd like to share another excerpt from my son's interview: "I traveled across the war-torn country until I reached Pápa, Hungary. I didn't know what I expected to find at my house. But what I did find was an empty, bare, vandalized house with no sign of life within its walls. I was truly alone." In April 1947 my mother went to the Budapest branch of the Triesti Generale Insurance Company to collect on her father's life insurance policy. She knew he had always made his payments because it was her that took it to the post office every month. When she arrived, she was told that the Russians had taken all the company's funds and they couldn't make good on her claim. I have a copy of the documentation she received during that visit in 1947. As you can see by the stamp at the bottom of the document it was stamped before the expiration date of May 1, 1947. So here was my mom, 19 years old, no family, hoping that she could collect on her father's life insurance policy, so she could begin anew. And what did she get? Sorry, we can't help you. It only occurred to me last week that my mother valued the documentation she received in Budapest so highly that not only did she save it, but she brought it with us when we escaped Hungary in the middle of the night during the revolution of "56. In 1969, she had the document officially translated into English and sent it to the insurance company once again pursuing her claim on her father's life insurance policy. I have a copy of their response as well in 1969. Once again, their reply was sorry, can't help you. My mother has been very bitter about all the things that the Nazis did to her. Depriving her of family and friends. On top of that, she was cheated out of what was rightfully hers: the funds from her father's life insurance policy. Unfortunately she couldn't be here today to testify herself as she has recently become quite ill and is in the hospital. She has been feeling quite despondent without a great will to live. When I told her I was coming here to testify here today, she seemed like she became reinvigorated with these developments. Although I wish my mother could be here herself, I am grateful to be here today to try to bring about some vindication for her and for the other survivors while they are still with us. Unfortunately in many instances, like Dr. Miller said, whole families perished. No one survived to pursue a claim. These insurance companies have profited from the Holocaust far too long. It is time for them to make good on these claims and bring about some healing with their apology. Thank you for your time.

Mr. Fagan As those photographs are coming around, if you could make sure that they get back here and we'll pick them up. The last claimant to testify is Marta Cornell who is the lady who actually started all this. Mrs. Cornell is going to refer to a note that she found in her father's diary which has lists of all the policies and some explanations that she got as well as the original responses that she got from the companies and the policies themselves. I'm going to pass them around to you all as she speaks. [Attachment 2].

Marta Cornell Hello. I am glad to be here today to tell my story. My name is Marta Cornell, born Drukerova. I was born in small town in Czechoslovakia. My father's name was Leopold Drucker and he was a physician. I grew up in a privileged family. We were two children. I had a sister who was three and a half years older than me. We lived in a house where my mother's mother had also an apartment. My father had his medical office in the house. It was in the center of town. He was well-known and very well-established doctor. We enjoyed what I believed to be an upper middle-class [lifestyle]. My father, Dr. Leopold Drucker always wanted to save and ensure for our future. He started purchasing insurance policies when my older sister was born in 1924 and he added policies after that. In March 1939 the Nazis occupied our country and soon after that I think sometime in 1940 or 1941 we were thrown out of our house and we had to move to another family, Jewish family, where we had a small room where all of us lived, cooked and lived there till we were deported to the concentration camp Terezin in 1942. There we were separated from each other immediately. My father continued to work as a doctor during the horrible conditions in Terezin. I was assigned to work in the fields. In Spring of 1942 my sister was sent for two months to plant forest in a place called Shivoplot [spelling ?] with another 1,000 teenage girls. In December 1943 my sister was sent to Auschwitz. She suffered through more camps and finally ended up in Bergen-Belsen. Despite all the difficult conditions my sister survived of the actual camps but she died of typhoid in 1945 shortly after being liberated by the Allies. In October 1944 my parents were sent on a transport from Terezin to Auschwitz. They were exterminated. The only persons of my family who survived the Nazis were my 80 year-old grandmother and me. And although my grandmother physically survived, she never really escaped the camps. She went through mental torture the rest of her life. After the War my grandmother and I lived in Prague. At the time we had no money. We could hardly afford to buy the necessities. Then I remember I found a piece of paper with my father's handwriting. It was a B at first I didn't know what it was. Then I looked and it looked like insurance - number of insurance policies - date, number and for how much the insurance was purchased. There was an agent who tried to help me in 1945 to get the money but he couldn't succeed. He told me that he was told that those were unusual circumstances and those policies were purchased from Generali and Reunione Adriatica Di Sicurth. When I tried to get the insurance monies I had to fill out many forms. At first I was told by one of the insurance agents who sold my father the policies that I could get the policy proceeds. However, those companies, Generali and Reunione Adriatica refused to pay the benefits or give me any explanation of why they refused to pay on the policies. In 1948 Czechoslovakia became a communist country which made it even harder for me to fight the insurance companies to get the money that my father left for me. I came to the United States in 1964 and have lived in New York since then. Shortly after I came to New York I again started to try to get my inheritance money from Generali and Reunione Adriatica. In 1964 both companies wrote me and gave ridiculous reasons for why they were not going to pay out on the policies my father bought for our future. At that time I did not fully understand what the companies were doing. The bottom line is the companies would not pay the insurance accumulated cash value or the policy benefits. Also I applied for the benefits immediately after the war. It took years for the companies to give me the normal excuses for why they would not pay me. These excuses included the following: The company didn't have to pay because of the extraordinary circumstances B that means War. My father had failed to make the premium payments and as such the policies were canceled. My father failed to make the required premium payments. The companies applied the accumulated cash value to the missed premiums and after they used up all the available monies there was nothing left for me. The policies were nationalized when Czechoslovakia became a communist country in 1948. By refusing to pay the insurance proceeds or benefits that were due upon my demand in 1945, these companies broke the insurance contracts and stole or profited from my father's money. For over 50 years I tried to get the payments on the policies. However, until recently it was hopeless. In the last year I learned of the action taken by Senator Alfonse D'Amato from New York who has led the political battle to get Holocaust victims the return of their monies which have been withheld from us by the Swiss banks. I knew of Senator D'Amato getting the U.S. Government to de-classify very important documents related to the financial crimes of the Swiss banks and insurance companies. Then when the lawsuit by Holocaust victims against the Swiss banks was filed by Mr. Fagan and his colleagues, I contacted Mr. Fagan's office and gave him the information about my claims against Generali and Reunione Adriatica Di Sicurth which is a majority-owned company of Allianz, the German insurance giant. After a few months of investigation, we decided to file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of all Holocaust victims whose insurance policies were never paid by these companies. Last month I went to Munich, Germany, with regard to my claim against Reunione Adriatica and Allianz subsidiary. In a brief meeting with a spokesperson for Allianz Reunione Adriatica, I was told that they knew of my claim but that all records and all my files related to my policies were destroyed 30 years ago. I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I asked them again. I was told that shortly after I was sent the letters by Generali and Reunione Adriatica in 1964, giving the explanation or excuses which the companies were going to hide behind rather than pay my policy claims my entire file was destroyed. I was told this not only by the Allianz representative. I was told this by the Generali representative with whom I spoke later the same day as I spoke to the Allianz person. It is my understanding that there were no exclusions in the policies that would have permitted Generali or Allianz to not pay me the insurance benefits that my father left. The only thing my father left me was this insurance benefit. These are monies that my grandmother and I needed. If Generali and Reunione Adriatica had paid the claims when I made them in 1945 I would have had the money I needed so I could get my grandmother the psychiatric and medical help she needed. She would not have had to live her last few years in torment. I needed those monies then and I want them today. I can never forgive or forget. I can never forgive or forget what the Nazis did to me or my family. The Nazis were ruthless murderers who took pleasure in our destruction. For 50 years I thought the Nazis acted alone. I know the truth. I realize that the Nazis did not act alone. They had bankers and they had financial institutions behind them. And then when the Nazis were defeated and are War Criminals the financial institutions like these insurance companies who took our monies not only survived but prospered. The insurance giants Generali Reunione Adriatica and Allianz have become even greater and wealthier companies in part because they had refused to pay out on policies like my father's policies that were bought and paid for belonging to Holocaust victims. It was not only the Nazis who victimized innocent people. Europe's insurance giants also participated and benefited from the theft of assets, policy proceeds, accumulated cash value from Holocaust victims. I have almost nothing left from my family. From my father I have a copy of the paper on which he wrote the notes about the insurance policies. From my mother all I have is a little piece of the dress I last saw her wear. Every night I have nightmares about what happened to us. Please do not let the insurance companies get away with the theft of not only monies but the memories that my family and the families of thousands who left their children money to survive after the war. Please help us get justice by exposing these financial criminals. Please help us. Please help us end the nightmares. Thank you.

Director Boozell On behalf of this organization I'd like to thank all of you. I know that your stories were hard to tell because they were hard for us to listen to. I think that we can take, Mr. Fagan, if you'll allow us to ask questions, I think we may have some, I'd like to take about 10 minutes for questions here and then switch over. Commissioner Senn will go first.

Commissioner Senn I just want to echo Commissioner Boozell's thanks to you for sharing your stories and the difficulty of doing so. I have actually a number of questions, Mr. Fagan, that crop up from what people have said here and maybe you could help so I'm just going to give you a quick list and maybe you could address it. In the letter that was passed out by Mrs. Drucker Cornell, it talked about the fact that the Czech government had taken the insurance companies assets and we've heard this, of course, about the Hungarian government. I know that there's case law on this particular issue, can you address that issue? That's the first question. The second is, tell us the problems that you are having in terms of accessing information, and third, tell us what you think is out there in terms of existence of files, because we hear that things obviously were destroyed, but we're also hearing that there's more out there than we at first thought.

Mr. Fagan Commissioner, there are some things I can talk about and obviously there are other things I can't, because there's a lawsuit going on. With regard to the Czechoslovakia becoming a communist country, that happened in 1948. If you see, Mrs. Drucker presented herself, Mrs. Cornell presented herself to the company in November of 1945, three years before those companies were nationalized. There obviously is case law out there dealing with who's liable, who's not liable, but the reason Mrs. Drucker wanted to give you that information was to show you that she was in fact there before there was ever an issue of a communist country taking over policies, she was there in 1945 asking that she be paid on those claims and she got nowhere. The issue with regard to documents, we are involved in a lawsuit, we will engage in discovery as is appropriate through the courts, what your offices can do, or your states can do, those are things that you all best know how to deal with. As a practical matter throughout our investigation, of course, we've learned, and it's common knowledge, where files are located, where the documents, the storage facilities are, there is a spokesman here from Allianz, I believe, who can tell you better where their documents are. We know that Generali and Reunione Adriatica's documents are located in Trieste, which is the main offices of each of those companies, which is in Northern Italy. Did that answer it?

Commissioner Senn I think so. Are there any other questions? Yes, Commissioner Angoff?

Director Jay Angoff I'd like to thank everybody too, obviously for coming and I tell you, I think I speak for all commissioners when I say we're unsure what we can do, but whatever we can do we will do. Mr. Fagan, maybe you can answer this, or Mr. Rosenberg, is there any evidence that Winterthur or any of the other European insurers deliberately targeted Jews, I mean that they deliberately had a scheme, deliberately sold Jews for less, knowing or believing that they would soon be killed by the Germans?

Mr. Fagan I believe Mr. Rosenberg can answer that better.

Mr. Rosenberg Well evidence is a hard thing to come by, all I can tell you is what I recall, and that is when these gentlemen came to see us in 1942, they came to see us specifically because we were Jews, they were targeting these policies for Jews, they were selling them as an instrument, really, by which my father and my mother could provide for the future for my sister and I should they die, and they came to us because they got our name from other Jewish people in Brussels. Before they left they asked us for the names of other Jews. It was obvious they were not selling this to anybody else. The way the policy was presented, in that you only had to pay half of it upon signature and the other half a year later on the anniversary of the policy, I believe was a conscious attempt at not having to pay because they knew we would be around either to pay the policy a year later, the balance of it, or we would not be alive at all. And at that time the policy would lapse and they would keep the money. I don't have any evidence that it was a policy subscribed to by everybody but we were definitely targeted.

Director Angoff And what have your dealings with Winterthur been like? How have you approached them and how have they responded to you?

Mr. Rosenberg I have not done anything with Winterthur because, first of all, I did not really become fully aware that we had taken up a policy until after my father died in 1988. When I went to Brussels to close up his apartment, I found some documents which showed that there was a policy which was turned over to my mother as a part of a separation between my mother and my father. My mother came to the United States in 1952, my father remained in Belgium until he died, and I know there was no Winterthur policy before the war, as late as 1939, and there was a policy after the war. By then I was 58 years old and I had other things to do, and I didn't think, alone, that I could do anything about Winterthur, but it always left a bad taste in my mouth, and it's only when I saw the article in the Wall Street Journal, less than a year ago, that I decided that Winterthur should not off get scott-free because the article was mentioning an Italian company, a Germany company, and I said to myself, what about the Swiss companies. I believe I wrote a letter to Senator D'Amato's office, but I'm not sure about it at this time, and then I contacted Mr. Fagan and I believe the matter is in his hands now. Certainly Winterthur never made any efforts to locate me or my sister or my mother before my father died or after he died.

Rabbi Miller Many of the Jews purchased policies, particularly with Swiss companies, because they thought that this was a way of getting their money out, just as they deposited their money in Swiss banks. So many of them could not have gotten money out of the countries and therefore these policies were particularly sold to Jews.

Commissioner Kathleen Sebelius Mr. Fagan, this is a question for you, but I do want to thank the conferees for coming today. Although I've read reports about the situation, it's incredibly compelling to hear the personal stories and you just represent a few of the people who have been affected by this and I appreciate your willingness to do that. Mr. Fagan, I've read some varying reports, how many companies are involved right now in the litigation and how many, do you have a number of survivors who have been identified?

Mr. Fagan I can, but my colleagues are much more articulate than I and I would be remiss if I didn't point them out. Linda Gerstel is from Anderson Kill and Olick. Next to Linda is Joanne Zack from Kohn Swift and Graf and next to Joanne is Richard Shevitz from Cohen Malad. We are the four primary counsel. Linda has been responsible for getting all the individual companies involved. Linda, do you have a number?

Linda Gerstel Thank you commissioners for having us here today. I guess I'm happy that the survivors are in better shape than I in terms of mobility. We have 15 companies named in the lawsuit. What we also have in the lawsuit, and what's very difficult in this case, is that there are a number of different companies that the successor liability is unclear at this point. And we think that if we could have your assistance in finding out, although we've made our own attempts at this point and we plan on continuing to do so throughout discovery, who successor liability, who succeeds the liability of some of the companies. In particular, one of the companies that issued many policies at that time was a company by the name of Phoenix. It's very difficult to determine, in each particular country, who succeeded to the Phoenix liability. I guess the other question that was asked was the stage at which we're at this proceeding. We haven't yet moved for class certification. At this point, the judge has issued an informal stay in the case, and we plan to move for certification at that point, in accordance with the judge's schedule.

Commissioner Sebelius As a brief follow-up, there were 15 companies that you have identified, how many have American successors, affiliations, partners? I'm just trying to get some sense of who's in operation in the United States that may be associated with the 15 that you've currently identified.

Ms. Gerstel I think that some of them are very well-known to the commissioners here. Allianz clearly has subsidiaries here. Fireman's Fund is well-known to many people in the United States. Winterthur I know has a number of subsidiaries in the State of Washington and elsewhere. Generali has branches in New York City and elsewhere. Zurich Life of course is well-known here. And there are other companies as well. I'm just naming some off the top of my head at this point.

Commissioner Sebelius Thank you.

Commissioner Senn Thank you very much. We can actually be gathering that information for the different commissioners in terms of the different states. Let me also just very quickly introduce Senator D'Amato's legislative director is here, Greg Rickman, so he's in the room and we just want to introduce him and make sure that people know that he's here. Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Rickman. I believe we want to move on, is that right? So thank you very much to the panel, to Ms. Gerstel and Mr. Fagan, for your testimony, and now I guess the last gentleman to speak.

Director Boozell Thank you very much, to the panel, if you could go back to your seats, we're going to have the last witness come forward. While we're moving I will read into the record the letter that we received from Zurich. It goes as follows:

"I understand that you have extended an invitation to Zurich Insurance Company to participate in a meeting of the Special Insurance Issues Committee on Monday, September 22, in Washington, D.C. to discuss the Holocaust survivors claim matter. Apparently, you contacted one of our U.S. affiliates, Zurich-American Insurance Group, by phone on Wednesday, September 17 to extend that invitation. Unfortunately, the Zurich personnel in Switzerland working on this issue, given the late notice of the meeting, cannot adjust their schedules to be present at the meeting. Moreover, Zurich has not involved its U.S. affiliates in this matter as it is exclusively related to European business. Accordingly, Zurich Insurance Company will not be present but asks that this letter be read at the meeting. We acknowledge the seriousness of this issue and despite Zurich's minuscule share of the German market during the pertinent time, we have devoted considerable resources to determining what, if any, Zurich insurance policies are implicated. As a result of the great efforts to shed light on the fate of life insurance policies of potential Holocaust victims, we are confident that there can exist but very few, if any, untraced policyholders/beneficiaries, respectively assets that may equitably be claimed by Holocaust victims or their descendants. Notwithstanding this, we are, and remain committed to expeditiously probe into inquiries or claims addressed to the Zurich so that justice and equity may in a nonformalistic manner prevail. Thank you for the opportunity to provide this status report on our efforts to deal with these issues. Very truly yours, Zurich Insurance Company Corporate Secretary and General Counsel, Kasper Hotz."

And now we'd like to ask Richard Williamson to come forward with his testimony.

Richard Williamson Good afternoon. Director Boozell, and Commissioner Senn, I don't know if she's still in the room, Commissioner Musser, and all other Commissioners, Superintendents and Directors who are here. We thank you for the invitation. We've just heard very compelling human stories. The events of the Holocaust are not lost on any of us. Today they are invoked again by these individuals who came before you. We do care. And justice and morality are the company's guideposts as it tries to deal with these issues. You've heard from Dr. Miller today, if I am quoting him correctly, that Allianz has been quite responsive. I think that's what he said. And it's true. Allianz has met with Dr. Miller and other representatives of the Conference and remains committed to searching for solutions to the issues that we've been talking about today. I'd like to note that Allianz accepted the invitation to testify, which it received only shortly before today, because it cares. It would have been a lot easier not to come. It's the only company that came. Let me tell you a little bit about the lawsuit, which will in turn answer some of the questions that were put forth earlier. On March 31st, the lawsuit was filed in the Federal District Court in New York. It was on behalf of a number of plaintiffs, and it was against seven European insurance companies. The complaint was subsequently amended to increase the number of defendants to 16 European insurance companies. And persons claiming to be beneficiaries, or descendants, of policyholders, are suing for payment of life insurance policies issued in Europe during the years 1920 to 1945. So we go back as much as 70, almost 80 years in some cases. The claims arise from life insurance policies believed to have been purchased by victims of the Nazi persecution. These embrace not only insurance policies of those persecuted in the Holocaust, which were seized by the Nazi government, but also contracts brought to an end after the War with the nationalization of the East European insurance industry by Soviet-controlled communist governments. Allianz Leben [Allianz Lebensversicherüngs B AG], which does business in Germany, is now in the process of trying to ascertain if there are in fact any valid unpaid life insurance claims. Our client had no reason to believe that there were any open claims relating to the period in question for life insurance policies issued by Allianz Leben. It goes back to one of the questions earlier asked B why all of a sudden now? Our client did not believe that there were any open unpaid claims. But it is determined to approach the issues raised by the lawsuit in an open, honest, and responsible way. Therefore, three courses of action have been undertaken that I would now like to discuss. Let me tell you briefly what they are and then touch upon them in some detail if I may. First, to expedite the receipt of information about possible unpaid claims, Allianz AG has opened a help line, also sometimes referred to as a hot line, for any persons with inquiries about life insurance policies issued during that period B 20s, 30s and 40s B to victims of the Nazi regime. Number two B Allianz Leben has hired Arthur Anderson in Germany to conduct an independent examination of relevant files to ascertain if there are, in fact, contrary to its belief, open unpaid claims that do exist. In addition, Arthur Anderson has been asked to, and has, secured the files to ensure their preservation. Number three B the current management of Allianz AG has re-committed itself to researching its corporate history B a project that was underway before this lawsuit was commenced B in particular, the historians doing this will be focusing on the era of the Third Reich, in order to understand better, and to make publicly available, when it is completed, the history of the way in which the generation that then managed Allianz-related predecessor companies in the 1930s and 40s dealt with insurance issues under the Nazi regime. Let me discuss these three initiatives in some more detail. First, the help line. Many people, particularly those who are elderly, would like to have a quick answer as to whether they are entitled to benefits. In order to facilitate that, Allianz AG has set up 24-hour, multilingual hotlines in Europe, North America and Israel to deal at once with as many potentially unresolved Holocaust-related claims as possible. Earlier this year, it began publishing advertisements in the same countries and continents B Israel, Europe and the United States as well, asking anyone who had knowledge of or questions about an unsettled claim to come forward. To call. It decided to open this help line and to search for any possible claimants as part of an historical, moral responsibility. Even though Allianz Leben is not legally obligated to do so, it will pay any valid claim that is submitted to it, provided that there is reasonable evidence to support its validity. By September, just to give you some idea of how it's been going, somewhere in the nature of about 660 inquiries had been received concerning 1,621 persons, so obviously in some instances, some people are calling in and asking about more than one individual to whom a policy may have been issued. This is the total worldwide. And that's by September. And in the vast majority of the inquiries, there was no connection between a caller and an insured under a policy issued by Allianz Leben. So far, however, the company has been able to connect about 27 specific help line inquiries to Allianz Leben files. And in at least 14 cases, the Federal Republic of Germany had already made restitution on account of those policies. In the remaining cases, some of them had been paid out to the insured, others were canceled and others are still being investigated. So we don't have a complete tally on the remaining cases but that's the status to-date. And the work continues. Number two, I mentioned that Arthur Anderson had been retained in Germany. Let me talk about that in some detail now. Immediately after the lawsuit became known, Allianz Leben commissioned the accounting firm of Arthur Anderson to do two things: the first was immediately to secure the files to make sure that all documents and files in Allianz Leben's archives and records were preserved. That has been done. In addition, it commissioned Arthur Anderson to review the files to assist in determining if there are any valid unpaid claims. Arthur Anderson is not the company's outside auditing firm. It was engaged specifically for this task. More than 30 people have been working on this review by Arthur Anderson of the archives. They appear to contain approximately 1,300,000 insurance files. Close to 35,000 have been fully examined so far by Arthur Anderson, as well as a sampling of about 31,000 of the balance of the files. Arthur Anderson's work is continuing. Allianz Leben regards this very thorough investigation as part of its historical and moral responsibility, words I used earlier, and intends to resolve any pending cases that exist, even though it is not obligated by law to do so. The third initiative, Professor Gerald D. Feldman, Professor Feldman is at the University of California at Berkley, and in addition to the Arthur Anderson examination of the files, prior to the lawsuit's being commenced, he had been engaged to do a study, an independent study, of the history, the corporate history, of the Allianz AG. That history will be completed and its findings will be published. Regardless of whether it is affected by any of the cases involved in the lawsuit, Allianz AG firmly intends to shed light on the way insurance policies were dealt with during this period and what repercussions this had for those policyholders who perished under Hitler's regime. Among the subjects Professor Feldman will be examining will be the restitution policy of the Federal Republic of Germany in the 1950s and 1960s and thereafter. The Nazis, who were notoriously thorough in the appropriation of value of anything belonging to their many victims, seized life insurance policies taken out by Jews and confiscated the cash value. After the War, when the Federal Republic of Germany assumed responsibility for these obligations, let me digress a moment and remind you that I believe it was Dr. Miller who mentioned that it was only the Federal Republic of Germany that assumed responsibility for such obligations, and when it did, the company was able to assist by referring to whatever files it had, and then in cooperation with the World Jewish Congress and the Claims Conference, the government of Germany undertook to pay indemnification. Whatever the facts are, the company intends to come to terms with its corporate history during the dark period between 1933 and 1945, even though today's employees, like the vast majority of Germany's population today, were at that time, either children or not even born. Professor Feldman's work will spearhead that effort. Finally, because the case against the Swiss banks is so much in the public eye, and indeed has been mentioned a few times today, we wish to point out that even if there should be any unresolved claims, there are nevertheless no dormant assets and funds left with insurance companies. As noted above, the proceeds have either been paid out to policyholders or their beneficiaries, or transferred to Nazi institutions under the laws and regulations of the Nazi period, and thus they later became subject to the indemnification procedure established by the Federal Republic of Germany in 1953. Or, as was the case in the East European countries, the assets, along with the policy records, have been taken over by the local Soviet-controlled communist governments and/or state insurance institutions when the insurance business was nationalized in those countries. Thus you can see the issues, both historical, political and legal are enormously complex. But Allianz AG and Allianz Leben are doing the best they can to grapple with them. Thank you.

Director Boozell. We have time for maybe a question, and that will be for you.

Director Angoff Yeah, Mr. Williamson, thanks very much for coming, it's a tough job, and I think we all appreciate it.

Mr. Williamson I wish somebody else could do it.

Director Angoff You said that regardless of what the legalities are you'd pay claims if the claimant has reasonable evidence to support its validity. Could you give us some examples of what such reasonable evidence might be?

Mr. Williamson Yes. Let me take one claimant who's come forward, who has the insurance policy, as I think was mentioned earlier, I forget which individual who was speaking to you earlier mentioned, that in some instances people have been able to find the actual policy and there's a person who did that and we were able to verify that was a policy that had not been paid out to the Nazi government, that the individual and that person's family members had not received payment through the indemnification procedure established by the Federal Republic of Germany, and that claim has been approved for payment.

Director Angoff Short of the actual policy, though, is there other evidence that people can submit to you all which you will then consider might be sufficient evidence to go ahead and pay a claim?

Mr. Williamson Yes. The answer is it will obviously vary on a case-by-case basis, but for starters, the name of the person that was insured or the name of the person who purchased the policy, any information they can give. Take a look at the examples of the numbers I gave you out of the statistical information that we've obtained. We've been able to establish from our records and from people calling that there were in fact policies issued by Allianz Leben to a number of the people who have called and then to try to ascertain whether the policy has been unpaid, in which case it will be.

Director Angoff So if someone just has a name of an insured, that is enough to get the process started?

Mr. Williamson It's enough to get the process started, and it has in many cases. Obviously they should still establish that they're the beneficiary so that you don't have a situation of where there are a number of survivors and several people are claiming the same policy, but that shouldn't be a problem and hasn't been a problem so far.

Director Kerry Barnett Is there an effort to cross-match your insurance policy archives from that era with the names of known Holocaust victims? Doing so might allow you to identify valid policies that should be paid out on without somebody actually stepping forward to submit a claim.

Mr. Williamson Except I think the answer is that the Arthur Anderson effort really ought to achieve that. Because, quite obviously, if you're going through so far some 65 or whatever thousand files, you can see, as you go through it, whether or not the claim has been paid out, whether or not it was paid to the Nazi government, and then also to further on to see whether or not the person has already received indemnification from the restitution office. So I suspect, in answer to your question, that it's really that there are a couple of different ways to skin the same cat. This ought to do it.

Director Barnett And so presumably if the claim has not been paid, there is no evidence of indemnification, or a claim having been submitted, that would allow your company to affirmatively, proactively, seek out potential heirs to the victim.

Mr. Williamson Potentially, yes, and we also have to recognize that going back to the Commissioner's question earlier, that history has dealt with this. I don't remember if it was Mr. Kagan or Rabbi Miller who earlier said that the way in which history dealt with this, that is the Federal Republic of Germany, is now viewed to be inadequate. That may be today's view. But at that time, the Jewish Claims Conference and the Federal Republic of Germany and the United States were involved in setting up the indemnification procedure through the restitution office and that was implemented, not by us, but by the country of Germany.

Director Boozell Thank you very much. We have to draw this to a close. I'd just like to say that I started off this meeting explaining to you that this was an informational hearing, and maybe a quorum of the NAIC's insurance commissioners would show up to listen to this presentation today, and that the Task Force's charge is to determine what, if any, role the NAIC should play here. As chairman of the E Committee, I can just tell you that I think it's clear that there is significant concern, not only among the individual states, but at a national level as well, with this Association, and I think that the hearings over the next three months will just help focus the concerns that are out here and determine what the future steps and actions of the NAIC will be. First, I understand that the press would like to interview those who testified who care to be interviewed, if the audience could please stay in their seats for just a moment, and let these people escape the room to the lobby, right outside the door and up the steps, that's where they'll conduct those interviews. So if the audience could please kind of let them out, let them through, that would be very helpful. Commissioner Senn would like to now announce the working group members and hopefully a first meeting. Thank you.

Commissioner Senn Thank you very much. Right now the working group consists of Washington, California, Missouri, Georgia, New York, Colorado, so anybody who is interested in being on the working group B Commissioner Sebelius B please tell me, because there is no requirement for membership B and Oregon B and New Mexico. We haven't set our first meeting but we're going to get together very quickly so we will let you know as soon as possible and let me just say a special thank you to Jim Stevenson of my staff who worked so hard to put this together. Yes, Commissioner Sebelius?

Commissioner Sebelius It sounds like, Commissioner Senn, you've done some additional work in Washington, you mentioned both a questionnaire and a letter, and it seems to me that not only sharing that with the working group but all the commissioners might be very helpful with some explanation of how you identified who you sent it to, the steps in the process, because I think there's probably a number of people who would easily mirror that activity if they had the information readily at hand.

Commissioner Senn Great, yeah, we'll plan to do that, absolutely, and also we're going to try to answer some general questions, just general legal questions, and there's a lot of case law about confiscation and things like that and we'll try to put some Q & A's together and answer them for people so they know the state of the law. Thank you.

Director Boozell Thank you all for your patience and for coming. I think we can go ahead and leave now. (end of hearing)

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